Liverpool Thread 2012/13

[SWP's back]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

Well you know better than Rodgers it would seem.

Great article by Samuel.

Great response. Tell us more about how paying over the odds for player in wages, fees and structuring is smart business in a rebuilding project the manager himself said would take time?

Poor article and poor response mate.

You think £6m and a lower wage than Joe Cole is over the odds for a player that can play midfield or as a forward and score 20 goals and already knows the prem and was agitating for a move to Liverpool? You're on your own son, everyone else in football thought it great, cheap business.<br /><br />-- Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:23 am --<br /><br />

Is the concept of owners having a say in their investment really such a new thing, even in football?

Not really the point of the article though is it as you've just oversimplified it somewhat.

 

[Blue Mist]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

It is actually the last few lines of the article I liked best. They are not about Liverpool but us becasue he makes a very valid point....
"UEFA may not approve of Manchester City but they are not above making a few quid off their back. The first issue of Champions magazine this season had Roberto Mancini on the cover. This time last year it was the newly acquired Sergio Aguero. What would UEFA have done to promote their tournament with its tired elite, repeating the same old fixtures, if City had not come along?"

If the Champs Laegue stayed in the same format with the same teams always winning, (which imo is what FFP is designed to do) people woiuld soon get very bored and stop tuning in. We have brought a freshness to the competition and the shites in suits want to remeber that.

 

[Tony101]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

Failure of an article.

Care to explain

Sure. Statements such as:

"And the extra £1million required to secure Dempsey from Fulham would have influenced that how?
Are we to seriously consider that Liverpool are within £1m of being thrown out of Europe, or that the club do not employ one business brain capable of moving numbers between columns to satisfy UEFA over such a comparably inconsequential sum? "


... I don't believe for one minute that £1m separated this deal from happening and not. Quite frankly the press in this country over simplify everything. Buying a player includes wages, agent fees and structuring. It's not as simple as taking out £6m and sending the briefcase to Craven Cottage. Fulham needed the cash quickly to pay for Berbatov. Tottenham likely received close to £5m in initial payments from Real Madrid who have the Spanish banks at their disposal. Samuel writes, and often, like a pissed up fan. He fails to acknowledge that Dempsey as a striker isn't really a replacement. As this is a player who scored most of his goals from midfield.

What Liverpool need is a true goal poaching forward. The kind of forward they thought they had in Andy Carroll. Those types of players are rare and you certainly don't want to make a mistake and have millions of pounds of deadwood and wages on the books.

Samuel fails to acknowledge a viable replacement to play as a number 9 for Liverpool. As we've seen here at City... You don't buy unless it improves your team tactically. Dempsey doesn't do that.

Few teams bar Tottenham could buy Fulhams midfield and have it appear as a success only to have it served as a failure because of a Portugeuese manager that can't make it work.

I agree with this 100%. But its much easier to criticize Rodgers rather than the yank owner. The guy had Carroll who may not be great player, but a solid PL player who the club spend 35 million on and he pushed him out cause he doesnt suit his tika take football. Also he showed his inexperience by getting rid of striker last 3 days of the window when he didnt sign the replacement yet. Anything can happen last few days and he made a rookie mistake. Also he spoke about how he takes pride in improving players and work with them in training, was carroll beyond improving?

And as you say, Dempsey is a good player, but he's not a striker. He plays for Fulham exactly where Gerrard plays for them. Shelvey who's a young talent can also play there. What they need is proper nr 9....Someone like Huntelaar would be ideal for them. And lastly owners should have the overall say of the club, the idea that managers should be able to do whatever they want is retarded. Then when the manager fails and get the sack, next guy say he doesnt fancy this lot and want 10 new players, it will be disaster financially to run a club like that.

Ideally it should be like swansea who has clear ideas on how they want to run their club and what type of football they want to play, then you seek for manager who fits that profile who will seek players who fit that profile and there will be continuity no matter what happens to the manager

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

Is the concept of owners having a say in their investment really such a new thing, even in football?

Of course it isn't which is why the article is a bit incoherent. The Liverpool owners may well be utterly clueless but they've put money in and presumably want to see it used properly, having seen it pissed away by the so-called "experts" they hired previously.

A manager is simply the COO of the main operating division of a football club. He has to make it work to the best of his ability and has to do that within a budget. Did Rodgers really have no say over Carroll going out on loan?

 

[44%]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

It is actually the last few lines of the article I liked best. They are not about Liverpool but us becasue he makes a very valid point....
"UEFA may not approve of Manchester City but they are not above making a few quid off their back. The first issue of Champions magazine this season had Roberto Mancini on the cover. This time last year it was the newly acquired Sergio Aguero. What would UEFA have done to promote their tournament with its tired elite, repeating the same old fixtures, if City had not come along?"

If the Champs Laegue stayed in the same format with the same teams always winning, (which imo is what FFP is designed to do) people woiuld soon get very bored and stop tuning in. We have brought a freshness to the competition and the shites in suits want to remeber that.

Have nothing against city , but you are wrong to think that people get bored and stop tuning in if same group of teams win it ,

however i agree that it makes it much more interesting to watch when teams like city challange

 

[alky313]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

Well you know better than Rodgers it would seem.

Great article by Samuel.

Great response. Tell us more about how paying over the odds for player in wages, fees and structuring is smart business in a rebuilding project the manager himself said would take time?

Poor article and poor response mate.

You think £6m and a lower wage than Joe Cole is over the odds for a player that can play midfield or as a forward and score 20 goals and already knows the prem and was agitating for a move to Liverpool? You're on your own son, everyone else in football thought it great, cheap business.

-- Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:23 am --

Is the concept of owners having a say in their investment really such a new thing, even in football?

Not really the point of the article though is it as you've just oversimplified it somewhat.

... I don't think I'm own my own "son". I think that paying a player like Dempsey 80-90k a week to operate in areas that he's unfamiliar with are absolute bollocks. I fail to see where exactly you'd like Dempsey to play. He isn't a striker. He isn't a better false 9 than Suarez and he won't unseat Gerrard as the #10.

I'm pretty sure that anything and anyone is a better deal than Joe Cole. But how are they supposed to pay him when they already have the likes of Cole riding the pine fighting for fitness. I can't really any reality in your post. Just as it would be ludicrous for us to sign Cavani with Dzeko fighting for time, it's the ludicrous for Liverpool to do the same. Especially as the "Cavani" in this case doesn't even play the position asked for him at a regular clip.

Dempsey will play behind Defoe for Tottenham. He's a dribbler and a playmaker. He excels with his ability to make deep runs into the box and get on the end of crosses because he can often lose the midfielder that is marking him. Sure £6m looks like a bargain. But it isn't when you can use those wages and fee for a player that directly suits your needs.

 

[44%]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

It is actually the last few lines of the article I liked best. They are not about Liverpool but us becasue he makes a very valid point....
"UEFA may not approve of Manchester City but they are not above making a few quid off their back. The first issue of Champions magazine this season had Roberto Mancini on the cover. This time last year it was the newly acquired Sergio Aguero. What would UEFA have done to promote their tournament with its tired elite, repeating the same old fixtures, if City had not come along?"

If the Champs Laegue stayed in the same format with the same teams always winning, (which imo is what FFP is designed to do) people woiuld soon get very bored and stop tuning in. We have brought a freshness to the competition and the shites in suits want to remeber that.

<br /><br />-- Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:01 am --<br /><br />

Is the concept of owners having a say in their investment really such a new thing, even in football?

Of course it isn't which is why the article is a bit incoherent. The Liverpool owners may well be utterly clueless but they've put money in and presumably want to see it used properly, having seen it pissed away by the so-called "experts" they hired previously.

A manager is simply the COO of the main operating division of a football club. He has to make it work to the best of his ability and has to do that within a budget. Did Rodgers really have no say over Carroll going out on loan?

Carroll was only sent out because rodgers didn't want to play him , and FSG didn't bought dempsey because it made no sense for them to buy 29 years old for £6m+ , we failed because we didn't have any alternative targets

the fact is FSG were willing to pay £15m for sturridge on deadline day because it seemed to be a better deal , it only fell apart as rodgers only wanted a loan deal and chelsea refused any deal as they failed to buy another striker (all this from reliable times and liverpool echo journalists)

So its a myth they don't want to spend any money , they rigidly follow the moneyball thing which sometimes has a negative effect in football (dempsey)

 

[the blue panther]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

I think that the article fitted the title which the OP gave to the thread. Also, that the critics of the article have really missed the point of the article - which is an attack on owners whose decisions undermine their manager by making the manager's job more difficult.
If, during a close season, you dispense with your manager and those who have scored the vast majority of goals for your team in the previous season - Kuyt, Maxi, Bellamy, Carroll amongst others - and you don't adequately replace them due to following an apparently deliberate policy, you thereby undermine your new manager. Samuels exposes the letter from Henry as merely a smokescreen to try to hide his incompetent management of the club to date - stemming from the appointment of Dalgleish and the wrongful waste of money which he was allowed.
Sadly for Henry and our scouse friends, Henry's multiple wrongs don't look like making a right.

 

[lust overlord]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

It is actually the last few lines of the article I liked best. They are not about Liverpool but us becasue he makes a very valid point....
"UEFA may not approve of Manchester City but they are not above making a few quid off their back. The first issue of Champions magazine this season had Roberto Mancini on the cover. This time last year it was the newly acquired Sergio Aguero. What would UEFA have done to promote their tournament with its tired elite, repeating the same old fixtures, if City had not come along?"

If the Champs Laegue stayed in the same format with the same teams always winning, (which imo is what FFP is designed to do) people woiuld soon get very bored and stop tuning in. We have brought a freshness to the competition and the shites in suits want to remeber that.

Have nothing against city , but you are wrong to think that people get bored and stop tuning in if same group of teams win it ,

however i agree that it makes it much more interesting to watch when teams like city challange

Liverpool used to be regular qualifiers for the champions league and one of the teams people tipped to do well,so I wouldn't expect you to get bored with the teams taking part.How do you know that football fans of other teams that aren't taking part don't get bored with the same teams constantly competing though?
Not having a go at you because im more interested in the champions league because City are in it.Used to enjoy the champions league format in the 90s and early 2000s, but later it was getting boring for me,same teams getting through the groups so the competition never seemed to get going till the quarter finals.
The emergence of new teams should surely perk things up for neutrals.

 

[Marvin]

Re: Martin Samuel Attacks J W Henry

It is actually the last few lines of the article I liked best. They are not about Liverpool but us becasue he makes a very valid point....
"UEFA may not approve of Manchester City but they are not above making a few quid off their back. The first issue of Champions magazine this season had Roberto Mancini on the cover. This time last year it was the newly acquired Sergio Aguero. What would UEFA have done to promote their tournament with its tired elite, repeating the same old fixtures, if City had not come along?"

If the Champs Laegue stayed in the same format with the same teams always winning, (which imo is what FFP is designed to do) people woiuld soon get very bored and stop tuning in. We have brought a freshness to the competition and the shites in suits want to remeber that.

Have nothing against city , but you are wrong to think that people get bored and stop tuning in if same group of teams win it ,

however i agree that it makes it much more interesting to watch when teams like city challange

The league has financial barriers which prevent most clubs from competing. After a while that has an effect on support for other clubs and wider interest in the game.

There's next to no interest in Scottish football outside the Glasgow clubs, and it would eventually go the same way if the same 4 clubs dominate in the Premiership. That's what FFP will lead to