Liverpool Thread - 2022/23

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El_george said:
Can someone explain something to me? I read this today:

www.theguardian.com

Police chiefs apologise for Hillsborough failures

NPCC chair launches report setting out commitments to learn lessons from 1989 football stadium disaster
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"The first inquest verdict of accidental death, against which bereaved families campaigned for more than 20 years, was quashed in December 2012. In 2016 a new inquest jury found that the 97 victims of the crush on Hillsborough’s Leppings Lane terrace had been unlawfully killed due to gross negligence manslaughter by the South Yorkshire police officer in command, Ch Supt David Duckenfield, and that there was no misbehaviour by Liverpool supporters that contributed to the disaster. However no police officer has been disciplined or convicted of any offence relating to the disaster or the years of false evidence; Duckenfield was charged with gross negligence manslaughter and acquitted in 2019."

So how can they be certain that "....there was no misbehaviour by Liverpool supporters"? I seem to recall that there were supporters climbing over walls to get in, did they check all supporters in the ground were there with a valid ticket? I know the Police made mistakes, but to say all Liverpool fans were blameless seems a bit odd to me.

It just seems the authorities want to assign the blame to anyone but the Liverpool fans as some way of compensating them/their families for their loss. Or am I out of order to think that?
Click to expand...

Mate, why are you still after all these years trying to find something that you can use to apportion blame on to the fans for this tragedy?

There’s no evidence of misbehaviour. There’s no evidence of people climbing over walls. There’s no evidence of ticketless fans. Are you seriously asking why, with the best part of 100 people lay dead, they didn’t do a ticket check? And even if there was evidence of all those things, it’s nothing we all didn’t do back then. We all played up to a certain extent in the 80s. We all tried tried to blag it into games on occasions. ( Obvious not literally all )

There’s a whole host of valid reasons to have a pop at Liverpool fans. Please let this one go. Eight years earlier we were in a semi final. That exact same thing could quite easily have happened on that day if things had been slightly different. It could have been us. Our parents. Our children. Who went to watch a game of football and ended up piled up dead on the pitch. It’s the one thing that really should be above points scoring.
 
Stephen230 said:
Mate, why are you still after all these years trying to find something that you can use to apportion blame on to the fans for this tragedy?

There’s no evidence of misbehaviour. There’s no evidence of people climbing over walls. There’s no evidence of ticketless fans. Are you seriously asking why, with the best part of 100 people lay dead, they didn’t do a ticket check? And even if there was evidence of all those things, it’s nothing we all didn’t do back then. We all played up to a certain extent in the 80s. We all tried tried to blag it into games on occasions. ( Obvious not literally all )

There’s a whole host of valid reasons to have a pop at Liverpool fans. Please let this one go. Eight years earlier we were in a semi final. That exact same thing could quite easily have happened on that day if things had been slightly different. It could have been us. Our parents. Our children. Who went to watch a game of football and ended up piled up dead on the pitch. It’s the one thing that really should be above points scoring.
Click to expand...

You’ve just stated the reason (bold)
 
RadcliffeRick said:
Easy to get confused when so many disasters follow one club around.
Click to expand...
The real question is why suddenly invite the Mayor of Turin over to LFC.
It is a song contest between countries that will be held in Liverpool. It has nothing to do with football AND dipper fc are not the sole club in that city.
They are just copying the rag PR re Munich.
 
Stephen230 said:
Mate, why are you still after all these years trying to find something that you can use to apportion blame on to the fans for this tragedy?

There’s no evidence of misbehaviour. There’s no evidence of people climbing over walls. There’s no evidence of ticketless fans. Are you seriously asking why, with the best part of 100 people lay dead, they didn’t do a ticket check? And even if there was evidence of all those things, it’s nothing we all didn’t do back then. We all played up to a certain extent in the 80s. We all tried tried to blag it into games on occasions. ( Obvious not literally all )

There’s a whole host of valid reasons to have a pop at Liverpool fans. Please let this one go. Eight years earlier we were in a semi final. That exact same thing could quite easily have happened on that day if things had been slightly different. It could have been us. Our parents. Our children. Who went to watch a game of football and ended up piled up dead on the pitch. It’s the one thing that really should be above points scoring.
Click to expand...
He is merely stating what a lot of people think.
 
Stephen230 said:
Mate, why are you still after all these years trying to find something that you can use to apportion blame on to the fans for this tragedy?

There’s no evidence of misbehaviour. There’s no evidence of people climbing over walls. There’s no evidence of ticketless fans. Are you seriously asking why, with the best part of 100 people lay dead, they didn’t do a ticket check? And even if there was evidence of all those things, it’s nothing we all didn’t do back then. We all played up to a certain extent in the 80s. We all tried tried to blag it into games on occasions. ( Obvious not literally all )

There’s a whole host of valid reasons to have a pop at Liverpool fans. Please let this one go. Eight years earlier we were in a semi final. That exact same thing could quite easily have happened on that day if things had been slightly different. It could have been us. Our parents. Our children. Who went to watch a game of football and ended up piled up dead on the pitch. It’s the one thing that really should be above points scoring.
Click to expand...
Plenty of ticketless fans outside the entrances that contributed to the crush. No doubt the police monumentally fucked up and deserve all the shit they get. But lets not pretend there wasnt an issue outside the ground
 
El_george said:
Can someone explain something to me? I read this today:

www.theguardian.com

Police chiefs apologise for Hillsborough failures

NPCC chair launches report setting out commitments to learn lessons from 1989 football stadium disaster
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"The first inquest verdict of accidental death, against which bereaved families campaigned for more than 20 years, was quashed in December 2012. In 2016 a new inquest jury found that the 97 victims of the crush on Hillsborough’s Leppings Lane terrace had been unlawfully killed due to gross negligence manslaughter by the South Yorkshire police officer in command, Ch Supt David Duckenfield, and that there was no misbehaviour by Liverpool supporters that contributed to the disaster. However no police officer has been disciplined or convicted of any offence relating to the disaster or the years of false evidence; Duckenfield was charged with gross negligence manslaughter and acquitted in 2019."

So how can they be certain that "....there was no misbehaviour by Liverpool supporters"? I seem to recall that there were supporters climbing over walls to get in, did they check all supporters in the ground were there with a valid ticket? I know the Police made mistakes, but to say all Liverpool fans were blameless seems a bit odd to me.

It just seems the authorities want to assign the blame to anyone but the Liverpool fans as some way of compensating them/their families for their loss. Or am I out of order to think that?
Click to expand...
That's not what was said. They said "no misbehaviour by Liverpool supporters that contributed to the disaster" That last bit is the key point. I don't even think the most deluded of Liverpool fans would ever claim that every single one of their 20-odd thousand fans who were there behaved totally impeccably throughout the entire day. But that's irrelevant in respect of what caused the disaster in the first place. 2 independent inquests - 25 years apart - have stated that the behaviour (or misbehaviour even) of Liverpool fans on the day didn't in any way contribute to what unfolded. Do you think if City were in that semi-final that day and housed in that end, that every single one of our fans would've behaved perfectly? But like I said, the behaviour of fans wasn't the trigger for what happened - Hillsborough was a disaster years in the making and it was always going to become a reality if there was a breakdown in how that end was policed, and it was always more likely to happen if it was an FA Cup semi-final due to the numbers of fans attending. As such, April 15th 1989 was a kind of perfect storm and I've absolutely no doubt that whichever set of fans were in that end on that particular day would've experienced the same outcome.

I've posted this clip before and I'm going to post it again. Spurs fans very nearly suffered a similar fate 8 years earlier in that end when they played Wolves in the 1981 semi-final. The difference on this occasion is that the police did a fantastic job in alleviating a bigger disaster, opening the gates at the front of the Leppings Lane End to help ease the crush, and allowing hundreds of fans to sit round the perimeter of the pitch to watch the match. Contrast that to 8 years later when the police point blank refused to open the gates and if I'm not mistaken, when I watched the RTE footage of the match a few years back, there are even instances of police slapping fans back down into the pen for daring to attempt to climb the fence to get out. And despite the positive intervention of the police in 1981, there were still dozens of injuries with some Tottenham fans suffering broken limbs:

 
Bluesince1979 said:
Plenty of ticketless fans outside the entrances that contributed to the crush. No doubt the police monumentally fucked up and deserve all the shit they get. But lets not pretend there wasnt an issue outside the ground
Click to expand...
How do you know this? Were you there? Now I'm not saying that there were zero Liverpool fans without tickets but again, this has been dismissed in the independent inquests as being a contributory factor to what happened. And on the topic of travelling to matches without tickets, if it was City fans in that end that day, do you think none of our fans would've gone over without tickets? Do you think none of our fans would've attempted to jib in?

The main cause of the disaster was down to the police completely failing in their duties in blocking off the tunnel (something that they'd done in previous years) leading to the central pens when those pens were full, allowing more and more fans to blindly pile into that tunnel. Incidentally, those central pens were already full well before kick-off, even though there were still thousands of fans outside - the vast majority of them with tickets by the way - queuing to get in.
 
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