It is absurd, you are correct.I go back to my point. The Liverpool end was overcrowded, as was visible on TV. Many legitimate fans with valid tickets were locked out and caught in a crush. (A crush implies a large number of people, not just a handful.)
How is this entirely UEFA's fault? Do those fans who jibbed in, or used bogus tickets, have no agency at all?
This is a good example of infantilism at work. It effectively argues that grown men and women are helpless, like tiny children, and therefore cannot be held responsible for their actions. It is like saying that if I buy a knife, go into Manchester, and stab someone through the heart, it is the fault of Metrolink for conveying me or the fault of the Police for not stopping me.
It's too absurd to talk about!
The reason UEFA are at fault is that they are supposed to assess the risks and then put in place a plan which is safe for supporters turning up with genuine tickets for the match.I go back to my point. The Liverpool end was overcrowded, as was visible on TV. Many legitimate fans with valid tickets were locked out and caught in a crush. (A crush implies a large number of people, not just a handful.)
How is this entirely UEFA's fault? Do those fans who jibbed in, or used bogus tickets, have no agency at all?
This is a good example of infantilism at work. It effectively argues that grown men and women are helpless, like tiny children, and therefore cannot be held responsible for their actions. It is like saying that if I buy a knife, go into Manchester, and stab someone through the heart, it is the fault of Metrolink for conveying me or the fault of the Police for not stopping me.
It's too absurd to talk about!
Liverpool haven't been much better to be honest and despite last night's cup win they still don't look they are "back"Real Madrid have been a bit on n off lately. Trailing Barca in the league by 11 points with a game in hand.
They should still easily beat a very poor RM at the moment. There's a reason they are looking to replace Carlo.Liverpool haven't been much better to be honest and despite last night's cup win they still don't look they are "back"
Klopp looks spent too imoThey should still easily beat a very poor RM at the moment. There's a reason they are looking to replace Carlo.
The point is if there weren’t any dippers there with fake tickets there wouldn’t have been an issue just like with the Madrid fans. Actions have consequences.The reason UEFA are at fault is that they are supposed to assess the risks and then put in place a plan which is safe for supporters turning up with genuine tickets for the match.
If they were aware that there were likely to be a lot of fake tickets (and I believe Merseyside police warned them), then they have a responsibility to the other fans to make sure they can deal with that effectively.
The coverage in the Guardian has been particularly red-tinted, but there was a good interactive showing the whole route for fans to the stadium. They were essentially forced into very long bottle necks (and these couldn't be seen by the people arriving so they didn't realise that there was a problem ahead), and at these points they tried to check tickets. Even without fake tickets it looked like a recipe for disaster, but as soon as tickets start getting rejected, the whole thing collapses. There is already a crush behind, so nowhere for the fan whose ticket has been rejected to go (and bear in mind they could have a genuine ticket but a fake copy had been scanned), and given that it's a massive bottle neck, there is constant pressure building up behind.
No-one is saying that UEFA didn't look after the fans trying to jib in, they're saying that they put the fans who had spent a lot of money on genuine tickets at risk
Pep looked really uncomfortable saying it. I wonder if he'd been told to do it?I hate how Pep's been made to humble himself before Gerrard.
That's simply not true - if you look at the route to the stadium it was completely different at the Liverpool end and was always going to be a total disaster. It was a really long route, with lots of bottle necks and pinch points.The point is if there weren’t any dippers there with fake tickets there wouldn’t have been an issue just like with the Madrid fans. Actions have consequences.
So it was UEFA, who printed and distributed the fake tickets, and encouraged Littlewoods fans to travel to Paris without a valid means of entry to the stadium?Thankfully nobody died and thankfully Liverpool lost the match. Yes the dippers are a feral mob but on this occasion UEFA appear to have been the main culprits. If you feel you owe no apology then so be it.