Luis Suarez Charged [Merged]

[smudgedj]

No they don't.

You call your female friend a Negrita and she'll cut your balls off.

Yet this is acceptable and chatter between two friends, spoken in the same language.

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/13/luis-suarez-patrice-evra

An illustration of this comes in the form of the message Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player who is currently on loan at Rayo Vallecano, sent to his Spain Under-21 team-mate Thiago Alcântara via Twitter on Friday. It begins: "Negrito, enjoy yourself …"

This was a conversation between two friends. In Uruguay, it is quite common for commentators to use the same word to describe Premier League players


.

Between friends yeah...close friends...same as I call my mate a 'fuckin' Pikey twat' but anyone not a close friend would get a twatting.

Oh and in the last 3 years of watching the Premiership games I have never once heard the word Negrito never mind any other form of it.

Edit: I've lived in South America for 3 years now, so I have a grasp of what's acceptable and what isn't

 

[sniff]

You call your female friend a Negrita and she'll cut your balls off.

Yet this is acceptable and chatter between two friends, spoken in the same language.

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/13/luis-suarez-patrice-evra

An illustration of this comes in the form of the message Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player who is currently on loan at Rayo Vallecano, sent to his Spain Under-21 team-mate Thiago Alcântara via Twitter on Friday. It begins: "Negrito, enjoy yourself …"

This was a conversation between two friends. In Uruguay, it is quite common for commentators to use the same word to describe Premier League players


.

Between friends yeah...close friends...same as I call my mate a 'fuckin' Pikey twat' but anyone not a close friend would get a twatting.

Oh and in the last 3 years of watching the Premiership games I have never once heard the word Negrito never mind any other form of it.

Edit: I've lived in South America for 3 years now, so I have a grasp of what's acceptable and what isn't

Im sure you do. I lived in Mexico for 18 months when i was younger, but i still would have no idea of the regional dialect, nuance, of a country about 1500 miles away. Its not like they are neighbouring counties is it.

and the portugese had large parts of the country too, unlike in Bolivia.

If i said Guey, to you would you see it as an insult, or a friendly hello. Its that simple.

 

[smudgedj]

Yet this is acceptable and chatter between two friends, spoken in the same language.

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/13/luis-suarez-patrice-evra

An illustration of this comes in the form of the message Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player who is currently on loan at Rayo Vallecano, sent to his Spain Under-21 team-mate Thiago Alcântara via Twitter on Friday. It begins: "Negrito, enjoy yourself …"

This was a conversation between two friends. In Uruguay, it is quite common for commentators to use the same word to describe Premier League players


.

Between friends yeah...close friends...same as I call my mate a 'fuckin' Pikey twat' but anyone not a close friend would get a twatting.

Oh and in the last 3 years of watching the Premiership games I have never once heard the word Negrito never mind any other form of it.

Edit: I've lived in South America for 3 years now, so I have a grasp of what's acceptable and what isn't

Im sure you do. I lived in Mexico for 18 months when i was younger, but i still would have no idea of the regional dialect, nuance, of a country about 1500 miles away. Its not like they are neighbouring counties is it.

and the portugese had large parts of the country too, unlike in Bolivia.

If i said Guey, to you would you see it as an insult, or a friendly hello. Its that simple.

From the top of page 11

I considered that before posting and asked a Uruguayan her opinion (or my girlfriend did), as I thought it would be a form of 'endearment' between people, as it's not unusual for people to be called names over here. But, shockingly as it seems, it is derogatory.

Guey is used here to mean pal or mate...in Mexico I'm not sure...

 

[sniff]

Between friends yeah...close friends...same as I call my mate a 'fuckin' Pikey twat' but anyone not a close friend would get a twatting.

Oh and in the last 3 years of watching the Premiership games I have never once heard the word Negrito never mind any other form of it.

Edit: I've lived in South America for 3 years now, so I have a grasp of what's acceptable and what isn't

Im sure you do. I lived in Mexico for 18 months when i was younger, but i still would have no idea of the regional dialect, nuance, of a country about 1500 miles away. Its not like they are neighbouring counties is it.

and the portugese had large parts of the country too, unlike in Bolivia.

If i said Guey, to you would you see it as an insult, or a friendly hello. Its that simple.

From the top of page 11

I considered that before posting and asked a Uruguayan her opinion (or my girlfriend did), as I thought it would be a form of 'endearment' between people, as it's not unusual for people to be called names over here. But, shockingly as it seems, it is derogatory.

Guey is used here to mean pal or mate...in Mexico I'm not sure...

In mexico it means Dude, Mate etc... but look up the literal spanish translation. It means Fool, or the N-bomb...

But now you see the point im trying to make. in the literal sense your being offensive, but to you, me, and almost all of the latin world, its fine every day hello.

Now are you ignorant/racist as the others suggested, no, of course not. the spanish dictionay says one thing, the actual spoken language is another.

Just like we call homosexuals "Gay" literal translation Happy. Or Pussy, means ladygarden, cat, your soft etc..... i wouldnt expect you average Bolivian to get those variations instantly.

 

[moomba]

If you go to another country and refer to a persons in a manner that most in that country would consider derogatory then it doesn't matter if you meant no malice, you are showing ignorance.

 

[sniff]

If you go to another country and refer to a persons in a manner that most in that country would consider derogatory then it doesn't matter if you meant no malice, you are showing ignorance.

Its a definition of ignorant, thats right. In this case he is uninformed or unaware.

Is that a bad thing, not really. We are all ignorant to everything we do not know or understand, if you take it to the exact definition.

Are you an ignorant person, no, simply because you cant ever learn or know every thing about a subject..... even if you have lived in the UK all your life, you cant say your not ignorant to the English language, by your definition.

To be uninformed or unaware makes you neither vindictive, or racist, and that's the whole argument.

 

[yankblue]

Whatever it means, I find it very hard to believe Suarez did not mean it in a racist way. I suppose they could just shake hands and put this whole debate to rest though, eh?

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

I think its apparent repetition could prove to be the determining factor in this. Think about it - you would only repeat stuff constantly to wind someone up and provoke a reaction.The meaning can only be perjorative and therefore insulting. If this is the case with Suarez he´s up poo alley imo.

 

[sniff]

I think its apparent repetition could prove to be the determining factor in this. Think about it - you would only repeat stuff constantly to wind someone up and provoke a reaction.The meaning can only be perjorative and therefore insulting. If this is the case with Suarez he´s up poo alley imo.

The perjorative...... a big word that no one has used in context to the argument.

A perjorative is just a basic term of abuse, no defenition of what constitutes an abusive comment is given, although it accepts that culture has an effect. If you take it to the letter of definition, calling someone a teapot, with intent is perjorative.

And the intent was the part that is being debated, it has very little bearing on the every day use of the term negrito.

I still have no idea why the person who brought it up, thought it so relevant to the debate.

 

[moomba]

Its a definition of ignorant, thats right. In this case he is uninformed or unaware.

Is that a bad thing, not really. We are all ignorant to everything we do not know or understand, if you take it to the exact definition.

Are you an ignorant person, no, simply because you cant ever learn or know every thing about a subject..... even if you have lived in the UK all your life, you cant say your not ignorant to the English language, by your definition.

I think you need to look at the charge, if he called Evra negrito, then there is no doubt he referred to Evra by his "ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race". If he did it by using "abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour then he is guilty.

To me ignorance is no defence, the onus is on him to ensure that something he says can't be construed as racist. If Evra was called negrito repeatedly I think it is quite reasonable to accept that he found the words abusive and/or insulting.

To be uninformed or unaware makes you neither vindictive, or racist, and that's the whole argument.

I've never suggested he is vindictive, or racist. We just don't know enough about what happened to know one way or the other. But when it comes down to it, vindictiveness or racism isn't what he is being charged with. If he referred to Evra's ethnic origins, race or colour and he used abusive and/or insulting words then he is guilty.

Where intent will be considered IMO, if he is found guilty is in deciding the severity of the punishment. I could see the case where he was found guilty of an offence, but suffered no punishment or a nominal punishment. I suspect footy politics might stop that from happening, but to me education can be just as powerful as deterrent.