Luis Suarez Charged [Merged]

[SWP's back]

Well thats a poor example really, isnt it.

First of all if they did that, they would be asked to stop. If they where then thrown out and fined by the police, that would be over the top.

It certainly is if its clear the person is chinese and on Holiday, if after having it pointed out they do it again, then you would be right.

Suarez has lived in Europe for over four years now. Bit long to be playing the ignorance card.

And while my example may not have been the best ever, it's certainly a lot better than "it's silly to expect people to adapt to the standards of the land they live in".

Well first off all you made that quote up !!!

I never suggested anything of the sort, i did, however, suggest cultural issues are bound to happen. So in the most polite way possible, dont put words into my mouth !!

Second point, He lived in Holland for four years, im sure your aware they are have a different culture than the british. Eg... you can somke in a cafe, and a lot stronger than tobaco, to use your earlier analergy.

Even so it's not "ignorance" as you called it. Is it ignorance if you give a firm, handshake to a Chinese person. No, it clearly isnt, but the Chinese think thats offensive. Its a cultural miss understanding, nothing more.

Bollocks. He used it repeatedly in the pejorative. To use your analogy is barmy.

 

[VOOMER]

Well thats a poor example really, isnt it.

First of all if they did that, they would be asked to stop. If they where then thrown out and fined by the police, that would be over the top.

It certainly is if its clear the person is chinese and on Holiday, if after having it pointed out they do it again, then you would be right.

Suarez has lived in Europe for over four years now. Bit long to be playing the ignorance card.

And while my example may not have been the best ever, it's certainly a lot better than "it's silly to expect people to adapt to the standards of the land they live in".

Well first off all you made that quote up !!!

I never suggested anything of the sort, i did, however, suggest cultural issues are bound to happen. So in the most polite way possible, dont put words into my mouth !!

Second point, He lived in Holland for four years, im sure your aware they are have a different culture than the british. Eg... you can somke in a cafe, and a lot stronger than tobaco, to use your earlier analergy.

Even so it's not "ignorance" as you called it. Is it ignorance if you give a firm, handshake to a Chinese person. No, it clearly isnt, but the Chinese think thats offensive. Its a cultural miss understanding, nothing more.

Heard of Martin Luther King? Heard about the slave trade? Heard about the American Civil war fought over the slave trade? Unless Suarez is a complete moron who can't read, then if he called Evra what is alledged, then I find it impossible for him not to have know that Evra would find it offensive. Shit, we are trying to say that he as lived in Europe, (Holland where all none Dutch films are subtitled), for 4 years and prior to that in a space capsule with no contact with the world.

 

[moomba]

In fact the easiest way to define the whole thing... Negrita which essentially is what you call your black mate in latin America. Would it then be bad for me to call a Mexican esse(sp) or Hombre. they have the same meanings.

No they don't.

 

[SWP's back]

OK, here's your direct quote.

you cant invite people from all over the world, then complain if cultures clash. Thats even more silly than actually being a racist.

You most certainly can complain if someone comes to your country and doesn't adhere to the basic standards of that country. To use an analagy I've seen on here, would you expect people in the middle east to just grin and bear your missus going topless over there because she does it in Ibiza?

I certainly wouldn't and I wouldn't accuse them of being "more silly than actually being a racist" if they were offended by it.

But your saying that defined laws are the same as social nuance, and they are not.


The point of what he said isnt about ignorance to well defined laws, giving the thumbs up in the middle east is a massive insult.

By no means are you genuine in an attempt to insult some if you do that, simply because in our culture its a good sign. As with everything we have two sides to one story, what he thought was a cheeky, actually turned out to be offensive.

In those cases ignorance is a very good excuse, the fact its open to such debate means their is at least cause to look into it.

In fact the easiest way to define the whole thing... Negrita which essentially is what you call your black mate in latin America. Would it then be bad for me to call a Mexican esse(sp) or Hombre. they have the same meanings.

Its just specific to a black person, and he is black.

Do you understand the term "pejorative"?

 

[smudgedj]

In fact the easiest way to define the whole thing... Negrita which essentially is what you call your black mate in latin America. Would it then be bad for me to call a Mexican esse(sp) or Hombre. they have the same meanings.

No they don't.

You call your female friend a Negrita and she'll cut your balls off.

 

[josh_spurs]

ne·gri·to/nəˈgrētō/
Noun:
A member of a black people of short stature native to the Austronesian region.

If it helps. Also used as a "pet name"
Suarez is a racist.

Should of said..
Courtesy of Wikipedia Dicionary of course

 

[sniff]

In fact the easiest way to define the whole thing... Negrita which essentially is what you call your black mate in latin America. Would it then be bad for me to call a Mexican esse(sp) or Hombre. they have the same meanings.

No they don't.

You call your female friend a Negrita and she'll cut your balls off.

Yet this is acceptable and chatter between two friends, spoken in the same language.

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.
<a class="postlink" href="http://w...ardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... trice-evra</a>

An illustration of this comes in the form of the message Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player who is currently on loan at Rayo Vallecano, sent to his Spain Under-21 team-mate Thiago Alcântara via Twitter on Friday. It begins: "Negrito, enjoy yourself …"
This was a conversation between two friends. In Uruguay, it is quite common for commentators to use the same word to describe Premier League players

Bloody scousers at it again but proves the point everyone has missed. Clearly in this situation it means as i said it.

So please explain to me how this falls into the arguments that its ALWAYS and offensive term from these pages.

And yes swp i do understand the Meaning of "pejorative" But in the context of the poster i replied, it wasnt relevant was it ?

Considering he wasnt demonstrating his point in that way. He chose to use legal and social precidents, so it wasnt really pertinent, was it now.

 

[SWP's back]

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.

So please explain to me how this falls into the arguments that its ALWAYS and offensive term from these pages.

All the clever people!?!? How old are you?

And I ask again, if he was using it in the pejorative and repeatedly, how do you rationalise it with yourself that it was a "matey" term.

You can't so you ignore it.

 

[twinkletoes]

No they don't.

You call your female friend a Negrita and she'll cut your balls off.

Yet this is acceptable and chatter between two friends, spoken in the same language.

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.
<a class="postlink" href="http://w...ardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... trice-evra</a>

An illustration of this comes in the form of the message Dani Pacheco, the Liverpool player who is currently on loan at Rayo Vallecano, sent to his Spain Under-21 team-mate Thiago Alcântara via Twitter on Friday. It begins: "Negrito, enjoy yourself …"
This was a conversation between two friends. In Uruguay, it is quite common for commentators to use the same word to describe Premier League players

Bloody scousers at it again but proves the point everyone has missed. Clearly in this situation it means as i said it.

So please explain to me how this falls into the arguments that its ALWAYS and offensive term from these pages.

And yes swp i do understand the Meaning of "pejorative" But in the context of the poster i replied, it wasnt relevant was it ?

Considering he wasnt demonstrating his point in that way. He chose to use legal and social precidents, so it wasnt really pertinent, was it now.

The example you give is the use of the word as a term of endearment.

It was not used in that context when said to Evra by Suarez.

It can therefore be said that it was used to antagonise Evra with all it's negative connotations.

It is not what is said but the manner in which it's said.

The context is the most important part of the argument.

 

[sniff]

Funny that for all the clever people who seem to think its rubbish.

So please explain to me how this falls into the arguments that its ALWAYS and offensive term from these pages.

All the clever people!?!? How old are you?

And I ask again, if he was using it in the pejorative and repeatedly, how do you rationalise it with yourself that it was a "matey" term.

You can't so you ignore it.

im 30 if that has any relation, and a tounge in cheek reaction to some of the clearly foundationless response's.

Well first of all, its not objective in the first instance as he, or Evra have not mentioned use of that term in any sense. If you can find a quote from either i will re- address that.

second point is that the pejorative is a very lose frame and can include any word said in anger. But it also by definition suggests multiple meaning of said offensive term, use of the meaning to be negative is pejorative, use in other more literal sense is fine.

What you need to determine is the literal sense to someone from Suarez's native country. Since i have shown an example of a more literal use, what is your argument. By the definition you set, its questionable, certainly to the point where you cant say 100% its racist.

If your going to sanction sever punishment, followed by the resulting fall out, you need to be certain. To that point none of us are.