Madeleine McCann

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yep ric and PB, I think you are both right. I'd like to know Mackenzie's thoughts on those question to see how she squares them off with her view that they had nothing to do with it.

Never mind the evidence - her feminine intuiton says they are innocent and that's that.

She answers most of the accusations in her book. I actually find it sickening that these two people are hounded like this.

She had a lot of time to think about the answers in that book. Just a shame she didn't answer the questions the police were asking when it really mattered. That's one of the main reasons they are being accused.

Plus the fact that there had been a dead body in that apartment and their hire car. That dog has never been wrong.

 

[Ricster]

Never mind the evidence - her feminine intuiton says they are innocent and that's that.

She answers most of the accusations in her book. I actually find it sickening that these two people are hounded like this.

She had a lot of time to think about the answers in that book. Just a shame she didn't answer the questions the police were asking when it really mattered. That's one of the main reasons they are being accused.

Plus the fact that there had been a dead body in that apartment and their hire car. That dog has never been wrong.

300 cases and a 100% success rate to be exact.

Also the Smith family identifying Gerry McCann as the man carrying Maddie.

The evidence is compelling, and if it had happened in this country they'd, Kate and Gerry would have been arrested and charged with murder by now.

 

[Dubai Blue]

The evidence is compelling, and if it had happened in this country they'd, Kate and Gerry would have been arrested and charged with murder by now.

Doubtful. Do you think the CPS would be confident of securing a conviction on such evidence?

 

[stonerblue]

Do all the people that think the parents have done it think the British police haven't thoroughly investigated the McCann family?
If it's so easy to see the 'compelling' evidence from afar then surely the Brit cops might just spot it as well.

 

[Ducado]

Like many people I feel that there is something not quite right about the whole case, however the case has now gone cold and I doubt the truth will ever come out

 

[Bluemoon115]

Yep ric and PB, I think you are both right. I'd like to know Mackenzie's thoughts on those question to see how she squares them off with her view that they had nothing to do with it.

Never mind the evidence - her feminine intuiton says they are innocent and that's that.

She answers most of the accusations in her book. I actually find it sickening that these two people are hounded like this.

But why would she not answer them during the investigation?

If she/they were innocent, ten second answers that would absolve them from any blame, and allow the investigation to focus fully on the abduction.

Four years is a long time to invent answers.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Do all the people that think the parents have done it think the British police haven't thoroughly investigated the McCann family?
If it's so easy to see the 'compelling' evidence from afar then surely the Brit cops might just spot it as well.

The evidence may be compelling enough to form an opinion but not to gain a conviction. The telling thing for me is that both police forces have closed the file on this case.

It was also interesting that the last government, after initially being very helpful to the McCanns subsequently distanced themselves quite noticeably from them. Both Gordon Brown, who had many phone calls with the McCanns in the first weeks, and Foreign Secretary David Miliband refused requests for meetings with them once the British police had been involved.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

with corrupt payments to police officers under investigation as well as it not even being on our home soil I really don't hold too much belief in anyone being found guilty of all this.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

with corrupt payments to police officers under investigation as well as it not even being on our home soil I really don't hold too much belief in anyone being found guilty of all this.

All these people criticising the Portuguese police would do well to look closer to home. Incompetence may not be a great trait in a police force but it's better than corruption.

 

[Tuearts right boot]

Am I correct but if there is no body then there is technically no crime

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Am I correct but if there is no body then there is technically no crime

I don't believe that's correct. People have been convicted without a body being found. There was a case like this up in Blackburn quite recently I seem to remember.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Am I correct but if there is no body then there is technically no crime

No,you are not correct.
And,for someone who was claiming that he knew all about the Portuguese legal system just a few pages back,your ignorance is laughable.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Am I correct but if there is no body then there is technically no crime

What an absurd notion.

Just think about how ridiculous that question is.

 

[M18CTID]

Am I correct but if there is no body then there is technically no crime

I don't believe that's correct. People have been convicted without a body being found. There was a case like this up in Blackburn quite recently I seem to remember.

Absolutely. Going back further, the disappearance of Helen McCourt in Billinge near St Helens in 1988 was one of the first cases where someone - in this case the landlord of her local - was convicted of murder without a body being found. To this day her body is still missing.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Am I correct but if there is no body then there is technically no crime

Certainly not correct: <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_conviction_without_a_body" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_con ... out_a_body</a>

 

[Ricster]

The evidence is compelling, and if it had happened in this country they'd, Kate and Gerry would have been arrested and charged with murder by now.

Doubtful. Do you think the CPS would be confident of securing a conviction on such evidence?

If Derek Bentley can be hanged for telling someone to, let the police have the gun, or as Bentley said, "Let him have it", then yes, i do believe there is enough.

Look at the evidence.

Gerry McCann sighted carrying what looked to be a sleeping girl.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in various locations within the appartment.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in a hire car that was used after Maddie "disappeared".
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body on Maddie's cuddly toy.
The refusal to answer questions by Kate McCann.
The blood stains on Kate McCann's clothing.

I think there is more than enough there to charge Gerry, Kate or both for murder/manslaughter. It'd be interesting what any legal people thought on this matter if they could give an opinion on the evidence.

Im not saying they would get found guilty, but i would defo say there is enough for them to be charged.

Totally guess work here

But Kate McCann let Sky News know about Maddie's "disappearance" before letting the police know. Why is this? My belief is that if a story like this is out in the public domain and the details are easily accessable, there is no way, at that time, that any jury would find them guilty. There would be compassion, and heart felt anguish shown for the parents and they would more than definately recieve a not guilt verdict.

Another very clever move by the McCann's, dont you think?

 

[Dubai Blue]

The evidence is compelling, and if it had happened in this country they'd, Kate and Gerry would have been arrested and charged with murder by now.

Doubtful. Do you think the CPS would be confident of securing a conviction on such evidence?

If Derek Bentley can be hanged for telling someone to, let the police have the gun, or as Bentley said, "Let him have it", then yes, i do believe there is enough.

Look at the evidence.

Gerry McCann sighted carrying what looked to be a sleeping girl.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in various locations within the appartment.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in a hire car that was used after Maddie "disappeared".
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body on Maddie's cuddly toy.
The refusal to answer questions by Kate McCann.
The blood stains on Kate McCann's clothing.

I think there is more than enough there to charge Gerry, Kate or both for murder/manslaughter. It'd be interesting what any legal people thought on this matter if they could give an opinion on the evidence.

Im not saying they would get found guilty, but i would defo say there is enough for them to be charged.

Fortunately, the law has moved on since the 1950s. I'm no legal expert but I know enough to say that that definitely isn't enough for them to be charged and for the CPS to think that it has a realistic chance of securing a conviction. Any defence counsel worth his salt would blow holes in that 'evidence', establishing much more than 'reasonable doubt' in the prosecution's version of events.

All of that stuff could help secure a conviction as supporting evidence to something a lot more concrete, but on its own it's pretty much worthless.

 

[Ricster]

Doubtful. Do you think the CPS would be confident of securing a conviction on such evidence?

If Derek Bentley can be hanged for telling someone to, let the police have the gun, or as Bentley said, "Let him have it", then yes, i do believe there is enough.

Look at the evidence.

Gerry McCann sighted carrying what looked to be a sleeping girl.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in various locations within the appartment.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in a hire car that was used after Maddie "disappeared".
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body on Maddie's cuddly toy.
The refusal to answer questions by Kate McCann.
The blood stains on Kate McCann's clothing.

I think there is more than enough there to charge Gerry, Kate or both for murder/manslaughter. It'd be interesting what any legal people thought on this matter if they could give an opinion on the evidence.

Im not saying they would get found guilty, but i would defo say there is enough for them to be charged.

Fortunately, the law has moved on since the 1950s. I'm no legal expert but I know enough to say that that definitely isn't enough for them to be charged and for the CPS to think that it has a realistic chance of securing a conviction. Any defence counsel worth his salt would blow holes in that 'evidence', establishing much more than 'reasonable doubt' in the prosecution's version of events.

All of that stuff could help secure a conviction as supporting evidence to something a lot more concrete, but on its own it's pretty much worthless.

DB, you just know i will disagree, lol.

The main evidence the CPS would go on is the sighting made by the Smith family. They have witnesses stating that Mr McCann was carrying a small girl fitting the description of Maddie around the time the McCann's claimed that Maddie had been taken.
The fact they have cadaver links in the appartment and the hire car helps tie the case together,. The cuddly toy is crucial, as it shows Maddie was dead before she left the appartment. Who would take a dead child?
Im not sure if the blood staines on Kate's top was DNA checked to Maddie, but if so, there is some more evidence too.
The fact Kate McCann refused to answer questions says to me she could be broken down on the stand quite easily.

Unfortunately we will never know the truth, but it is compelling when you tie everything together.

 

[Dubai Blue]

If Derek Bentley can be hanged for telling someone to, let the police have the gun, or as Bentley said, "Let him have it", then yes, i do believe there is enough.

Look at the evidence.

Gerry McCann sighted carrying what looked to be a sleeping girl.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in various locations within the appartment.
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body in a hire car that was used after Maddie "disappeared".
The dog coming up with the scent of a dead body on Maddie's cuddly toy.
The refusal to answer questions by Kate McCann.
The blood stains on Kate McCann's clothing.

I think there is more than enough there to charge Gerry, Kate or both for murder/manslaughter. It'd be interesting what any legal people thought on this matter if they could give an opinion on the evidence.

Im not saying they would get found guilty, but i would defo say there is enough for them to be charged.

Fortunately, the law has moved on since the 1950s. I'm no legal expert but I know enough to say that that definitely isn't enough for them to be charged and for the CPS to think that it has a realistic chance of securing a conviction. Any defence counsel worth his salt would blow holes in that 'evidence', establishing much more than 'reasonable doubt' in the prosecution's version of events.

All of that stuff could help secure a conviction as supporting evidence to something a lot more concrete, but on its own it's pretty much worthless.

DB, you just know i will disagree, lol.

The main evidence the CPS would go on is the sighting made by the Smith family. They have witnesses stating that Mr McCann was carrying a small girl fitting the description of Maddie around the time the McCann's claimed that Maddie had been taken.
The fact they have cadaver links in the appartment and the hire car helps tie the case together,. The cuddly toy is crucial, as it shows Maddie was dead before she left the appartment. Who would take a dead child?
Im not sure if the blood staines on Kate's top was DNA checked to Maddie, but if so, there is some more evidence too.
The fact Kate McCann refused to answer questions says to me she could be broken down on the stand quite easily.

Unfortunately we will never know the truth, but it is compelling when you tie everything together.

She probably wouldn't even take the stand for that very reason. Remember, she doesn't have to prove her innocence.

And the CPS definitely wouldn't centre their prosecution around the supposed identification of Gerry McCann. Ironically, I'm currently reading 'Defending the Guilty - Truth and Lies in the Criminal Courtroom' by Alex McBride and one chapter deals with the flaws in relying too much on positive identifications to secure a prosecution. Basically, he says that they are far too unreliable to form the basis of a coherent and compelling prosecution as mistakes are all too common. He refers to the case of a well-known Australian criminal psychologist who was arrested on suspicion of rape when he walked into a police station to visit a client. He fitted the description given by the victim and she later identified him in a parade. It turns out that he was actually speaking on TV as she was being raped and she had psychologically linked him to being the perpetrator. He also references the case of an alleged conman who was wrongly identified by more than 20 different people.

Basically, positive IDs are now worth very little if they are not backed up by more concrete evidence, and they certainly don't form the basis of a case.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The Gerry McCann sighting would get torn apart in court. The Smith family never actually saw his face plus the defence would presumably put forward evidence that placed him either in the Tapas Bar or at the apartment.