Madeleine McCann

[Bluemoon115]

Sometimes I despair.

1) Everytime I see a Maddie Mcann story I almost fear reading the thread because of the outright hatred and bile that some people have towards them.

Ah - the famous "Norman Tebbit" gambit. He used to come out with things like "They said it couldn't be done but we did it" when what people actually said was "You can do it but we don't think it's a good idea" and they were often right.

No one is spewing bile and hatred (though with your appearance on the thread that's undoubtedly going to change). We are saying there are a number of recorded facts about the case that we believe demonstrate they were the ones responsible for their daughter's death and covered it up.

Yet another poster who doesn't agree but instead of attacking the argument with logic, attacks the posters putting forward the argument.

I have not attacked anyone personally here I just think there is nowhere near enough evidence to suggest they were responsible, and I also feel the time scales do not add up if they had done it. Maddie was seen that afternoon alive and well by the pool which means in the five hours (ish) between then and the parents raising the alarm they had killed and disposed (very successfully it seems) of her body. They then calmed themselves down and concocted this story and went for a meal......I just don't buy it.

And to Glen- when any child goes missing regardless of class, wealth or status of the parents there is a massive amount of coverage. Where I do agree with you is that the Mcanns were able to mobilise their own media team to keep Maddies memory alive after the initial circus calmed down. Thats due to the fact they had wealth, contacts and lets face it they're both going to be pretty bright if they're doctors.... is it fair they had this advantage because of their status? Probably not, just like some kids would never have the opportunity to spend a week in Portugal, sadly thats life- and you can't blame the Mccans for trying all they can to get her back.

A few questions for ya. Do these sound like the actions of the innocent, wanting to do all they can for their daughter...

1) Despite experts telling them not to speak about her eye condition (as this would panic kidnappers, and make them more likely to kill), her father released the info in a police statement.

2) Not answering around 40 of the questions put to them by the investigators. Surely they would be willing to give as much information as they could towards the investigation.

In addition, would you, having had a child kidnapped, leave your other two children in a crèche? Or would you never not let them out of your sight for weeks?

Just a few of the questionable acts of those who want "the truth" in this.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Sometimes I despair.

1) Everytime I see a Maddie Mcann story I almost fear reading the thread because of the outright hatred and bile that some people have towards them.

Ah - the famous "Norman Tebbit" gambit. He used to come out with things like "They said it couldn't be done but we did it" when what people actually said was "You can do it but we don't think it's a good idea" and they were often right.

No one is spewing bile and hatred (though with your appearance on the thread that's undoubtedly going to change). We are saying there are a number of recorded facts about the case that we believe demonstrate they were the ones responsible for their daughter's death and covered it up.

Yet another poster who doesn't agree but instead of attacking the argument with logic, attacks the posters putting forward the argument.

I have not attacked anyone personally here I just think there is nowhere near enough evidence to suggest they were responsible, and I also feel the time scales do not add up if they had done it. Maddie was seen that afternoon alive and well by the pool which means in the five hours (ish) between then and the parents raising the alarm they had killed and disposed (very successfully it seems) of her body. They then calmed themselves down and concocted this story and went for a meal......I just don't buy it.

If there was enough evidence then they'd have stood trial but there's enough to suggest the story is not straightforward.

Your post shows you have come to a conclusion without considering it properly.

Kate admitted to police that Maddy and one of the twins woke up the previous night. She knew this because Maddy had asked her where they were the night before as her and Sean were crying but no one came.

So the supposition is that, being doctors, they drugged the children to ensure they didn't wake up. There's a lot of support for this as the twins didn't wake up despite the fact that the lights were on and people were supposedly shouting and searching the room. Initially, the McCanns refused to have the twins tested but then supposedly did it themsleves many months later. They have never released the results of those tests and even if they were clear, 5 months is probably too long for any traces to remain. Kate actually agrees that the twins were drugged but claims the abductor did it. But why would they bother? Asked if they'd given the kids anything, they denied it but Kate McCann's father said they'd told him they'd given them Calpol.

So the supposition is that either as a direct or indirect result of a sleeping drug, Maddy may have died.

Then there's the evidence of the checking. The McCanns claimed someone checked the kids every half-hour or so but the last person to check was one of their friends who didn't actually go in the room but listened at the door or window. I think there was gap of about 90 minutes between the last time someone actually saw her and discovering she was missing, according to their testimony. Very strange behaviour, unless you were fairly certain they weren't going to wake up.

Then there's the contradictory evidence of sightings. Jane Tanner, one of the friends, came up with a sighting of a man of Mediterranean appearance carrying a child but no one else saw this. She changed her story several times but claimed she walked past Gerry McCann and another friend soon after. Neither remember seeing her.

However the Smith family, with no connection to the McCanns, also saw a man carrying a child. They were only asked to confirm whether it was initial suspect Robert Murat at the time, which they couldn't. It was a few weeks later, when they were back at home watching Gerry McCann coming down the plane steps carrying one of the twins that they realised that the man they saw had the same build and the way he walked was the same way they saw the man walking that night. Therefore they believe they saw Gerry McCann carrying a child that would have been Maddy.

Then there's the sniffer dogs. These dogs detected body fluids from a dead person in four different places in the apartment as well as two in the hore car and they are rarely wrong. In fact the main dog has NEVER had a false reading. The hire car was hired after Maddy's disappearance but just before the McCanns went to meet the Pope in Rome. Asked why they hired a car when they were going away they claimed it was for the use of a number of people including their friends. Oddly, none of these friends can remember who picked the car up from Faro airport or who drove it when, while the McCanns were away.

So it's supposition but could well be that they used this car to move the body from wherever they'd hidden it on the night in question and dispose of it finally. What better time to do that when everyone's attention was on the McCanns in Rome?

That's just part of the evidence and there are loads of other contradictions. Not enough for a court of law but enough to form an opinion.

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

Ah - the famous "Norman Tebbit" gambit. He used to come out with things like "They said it couldn't be done but we did it" when what people actually said was "You can do it but we don't think it's a good idea" and they were often right.

No one is spewing bile and hatred (though with your appearance on the thread that's undoubtedly going to change). We are saying there are a number of recorded facts about the case that we believe demonstrate they were the ones responsible for their daughter's death and covered it up.

Yet another poster who doesn't agree but instead of attacking the argument with logic, attacks the posters putting forward the argument.

I have not attacked anyone personally here I just think there is nowhere near enough evidence to suggest they were responsible, and I also feel the time scales do not add up if they had done it. Maddie was seen that afternoon alive and well by the pool which means in the five hours (ish) between then and the parents raising the alarm they had killed and disposed (very successfully it seems) of her body. They then calmed themselves down and concocted this story and went for a meal......I just don't buy it.

If there was enough evidence then they'd have stood trial but there's enough to suggest the story is not straightforward.

Your post shows you have come to a conclusion without considering it properly.

Kate admitted to police that Maddy and one of the twins woke up the previous night. She knew this because Maddy had asked her where they were the night before as her and Sean were crying but no one came.

So the supposition is that, being doctors, they drugged the children to ensure they didn't wake up. There's a lot of support for this as the twins didn't wake up despite the fact that the lights were on and people were supposedly shouting and searching the room. Initially, the McCanns refused to have the twins tested but then supposedly did it themsleves many months later. They have never released the results of those tests and even if they were clear, 5 months is probably too long for any traces to remain. Kate actually agrees that the twins were drugged but claims the abductor did it. But why would they bother? Asked if they'd given the kids anything, they denied it but Kate McCann's father said they'd told him they'd given them Calpol.

So the supposition is that either as a direct or indirect result of a sleeping drug, Maddy may have died.

Then there's the evidence of the checking. The McCanns claimed someone checked the kids every half-hour or so but the last person to check was one of their friends who didn't actually go in the room but listened at the door or window. I think there was gap of about 90 minutes between the last time someone actually saw her and discovering she was missing, according to their testimony. Very strange behaviour, unless you were fairly certain they weren't going to wake up.

Then there's the contradictory evidence of sightings. Jane Tanner, one of the friends, came up with a sighting of a man of Mediterranean appearance carrying a child but no one else saw this. She changed her story several times but claimed she walked past Gerry McCann and another friend soon after. Neither remember seeing her.

However the Smith family, with no connection to the McCanns, also saw a man carrying a child. They were only asked to confirm whether it was initial suspect Robert Murat at the time, which they couldn't. It was a few weeks later, when they were back at home watching Gerry McCann coming down the plane steps carrying one of the twins that they realised that the man they saw had the same build and the way he walked was the same way they saw the man walking that night. Therefore they believe they saw Gerry McCann carrying a child that would have been Maddy.

Then there's the sniffer dogs. These dogs detected body fluids from a dead person in four different places in the apartment as well as two in the hore car and they are rarely wrong. In fact the main dog has NEVER had a false reading. The hire car was hired after Maddy's disappearance but just before the McCanns went to meet the Pope in Rome. Asked why they hired a car when they were going away they claimed it was for the use of a number of people including their friends. Oddly, none of these friends can remember who picked the car up from Faro airport or who drove it when, while the McCanns were away.

So it's supposition but could well be that they used this car to move the body from wherever they'd hidden it on the night in question and dispose of it finally. What better time to do that when everyone's attention was on the McCanns in Rome?

That's just part of the evidence and there are loads of other contradictions. Not enough for a court of law but enough to form an opinion.

Well you clearly have researched the matter more than I have so I'll not argue with those points- I have heard the 'accidental drugging' theory, but to then take her body, dispose of it (again, very well) come back to their other kids and then concoct this lie thats still going on today just seems way too much for me.

As for the parents actions post kidnap/murder I do not have children, but I would imagine we all bring our kids up the way we see fit what may seem strange to you may be perfectly normal to me. For example leaving the kids in a creche- I can totally understand this. The kids don't need to be dragged into the circus and hung about at press conferences and police stations all day I think sheltering them is the right thing to do.....but again its personal choice.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I have not attacked anyone personally here I just think there is nowhere near enough evidence to suggest they were responsible, and I also feel the time scales do not add up if they had done it. Maddie was seen that afternoon alive and well by the pool which means in the five hours (ish) between then and the parents raising the alarm they had killed and disposed (very successfully it seems) of her body. They then calmed themselves down and concocted this story and went for a meal......I just don't buy it.

If there was enough evidence then they'd have stood trial but there's enough to suggest the story is not straightforward.

Your post shows you have come to a conclusion without considering it properly.

Kate admitted to police that Maddy and one of the twins woke up the previous night. She knew this because Maddy had asked her where they were the night before as her and Sean were crying but no one came.

So the supposition is that, being doctors, they drugged the children to ensure they didn't wake up. There's a lot of support for this as the twins didn't wake up despite the fact that the lights were on and people were supposedly shouting and searching the room. Initially, the McCanns refused to have the twins tested but then supposedly did it themsleves many months later. They have never released the results of those tests and even if they were clear, 5 months is probably too long for any traces to remain. Kate actually agrees that the twins were drugged but claims the abductor did it. But why would they bother? Asked if they'd given the kids anything, they denied it but Kate McCann's father said they'd told him they'd given them Calpol.

So the supposition is that either as a direct or indirect result of a sleeping drug, Maddy may have died.

Then there's the evidence of the checking. The McCanns claimed someone checked the kids every half-hour or so but the last person to check was one of their friends who didn't actually go in the room but listened at the door or window. I think there was gap of about 90 minutes between the last time someone actually saw her and discovering she was missing, according to their testimony. Very strange behaviour, unless you were fairly certain they weren't going to wake up.

Then there's the contradictory evidence of sightings. Jane Tanner, one of the friends, came up with a sighting of a man of Mediterranean appearance carrying a child but no one else saw this. She changed her story several times but claimed she walked past Gerry McCann and another friend soon after. Neither remember seeing her.

However the Smith family, with no connection to the McCanns, also saw a man carrying a child. They were only asked to confirm whether it was initial suspect Robert Murat at the time, which they couldn't. It was a few weeks later, when they were back at home watching Gerry McCann coming down the plane steps carrying one of the twins that they realised that the man they saw had the same build and the way he walked was the same way they saw the man walking that night. Therefore they believe they saw Gerry McCann carrying a child that would have been Maddy.

Then there's the sniffer dogs. These dogs detected body fluids from a dead person in four different places in the apartment as well as two in the hore car and they are rarely wrong. In fact the main dog has NEVER had a false reading. The hire car was hired after Maddy's disappearance but just before the McCanns went to meet the Pope in Rome. Asked why they hired a car when they were going away they claimed it was for the use of a number of people including their friends. Oddly, none of these friends can remember who picked the car up from Faro airport or who drove it when, while the McCanns were away.

So it's supposition but could well be that they used this car to move the body from wherever they'd hidden it on the night in question and dispose of it finally. What better time to do that when everyone's attention was on the McCanns in Rome?

That's just part of the evidence and there are loads of other contradictions. Not enough for a court of law but enough to form an opinion.

Well you clearly have researched the matter more than I have so I'll not argue with those points- I have heard the 'accidental drugging' theory, but to then take her body, dispose of it (again, very well) come back to their other kids and then concoct this lie thats still going on today just seems way too much for me.

As for the parents actions post kidnap/murder I do not have children, but I would imagine we all bring our kids up the way we see fit what may seem strange to you may be perfectly normal to me. For example leaving the kids in a creche- I can totally understand this. The kids don't need to be dragged into the circus and hung about at press conferences and police stations all day I think sheltering them is the right thing to do.....but again its personal choice.

have you never made up a story to anybody on the spot or in a panic or rush and thought "shit, wish I hadn't said that now but if I don't stick to it then there'll be problems"?

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

If there was enough evidence then they'd have stood trial but there's enough to suggest the story is not straightforward.

Your post shows you have come to a conclusion without considering it properly.

Kate admitted to police that Maddy and one of the twins woke up the previous night. She knew this because Maddy had asked her where they were the night before as her and Sean were crying but no one came.

So the supposition is that, being doctors, they drugged the children to ensure they didn't wake up. There's a lot of support for this as the twins didn't wake up despite the fact that the lights were on and people were supposedly shouting and searching the room. Initially, the McCanns refused to have the twins tested but then supposedly did it themsleves many months later. They have never released the results of those tests and even if they were clear, 5 months is probably too long for any traces to remain. Kate actually agrees that the twins were drugged but claims the abductor did it. But why would they bother? Asked if they'd given the kids anything, they denied it but Kate McCann's father said they'd told him they'd given them Calpol.

So the supposition is that either as a direct or indirect result of a sleeping drug, Maddy may have died.

Then there's the evidence of the checking. The McCanns claimed someone checked the kids every half-hour or so but the last person to check was one of their friends who didn't actually go in the room but listened at the door or window. I think there was gap of about 90 minutes between the last time someone actually saw her and discovering she was missing, according to their testimony. Very strange behaviour, unless you were fairly certain they weren't going to wake up.

Then there's the contradictory evidence of sightings. Jane Tanner, one of the friends, came up with a sighting of a man of Mediterranean appearance carrying a child but no one else saw this. She changed her story several times but claimed she walked past Gerry McCann and another friend soon after. Neither remember seeing her.

However the Smith family, with no connection to the McCanns, also saw a man carrying a child. They were only asked to confirm whether it was initial suspect Robert Murat at the time, which they couldn't. It was a few weeks later, when they were back at home watching Gerry McCann coming down the plane steps carrying one of the twins that they realised that the man they saw had the same build and the way he walked was the same way they saw the man walking that night. Therefore they believe they saw Gerry McCann carrying a child that would have been Maddy.

Then there's the sniffer dogs. These dogs detected body fluids from a dead person in four different places in the apartment as well as two in the hore car and they are rarely wrong. In fact the main dog has NEVER had a false reading. The hire car was hired after Maddy's disappearance but just before the McCanns went to meet the Pope in Rome. Asked why they hired a car when they were going away they claimed it was for the use of a number of people including their friends. Oddly, none of these friends can remember who picked the car up from Faro airport or who drove it when, while the McCanns were away.

So it's supposition but could well be that they used this car to move the body from wherever they'd hidden it on the night in question and dispose of it finally. What better time to do that when everyone's attention was on the McCanns in Rome?

That's just part of the evidence and there are loads of other contradictions. Not enough for a court of law but enough to form an opinion.

Well you clearly have researched the matter more than I have so I'll not argue with those points- I have heard the 'accidental drugging' theory, but to then take her body, dispose of it (again, very well) come back to their other kids and then concoct this lie thats still going on today just seems way too much for me.

As for the parents actions post kidnap/murder I do not have children, but I would imagine we all bring our kids up the way we see fit what may seem strange to you may be perfectly normal to me. For example leaving the kids in a creche- I can totally understand this. The kids don't need to be dragged into the circus and hung about at press conferences and police stations all day I think sheltering them is the right thing to do.....but again its personal choice.

have you never made up a story to anybody on the spot or in a panic or rush and thought "shit, wish I hadn't said that now but if I don't stick to it then there'll be problems"?

Yes, but we're not talking about being late for work because you overslept and telling the boss you broke down-this is a very serious matter, and if it was as spontaneous/rushed as you make out do you not think they would have slipped up by now?

End of the day, I take your points on board but I just can not see it being them-seriously I'd be gobsmacked if it turned out to be Kate and Gerry (**edit- Gavin Mccan was a football who very nearly signed for us in the bad old days!)......Like everyone I would just love to know what really happened and alive or dead Maddie is not suffering.

 

[fulabeer]

Just because they didn't answer all questions asked of them (if even true) means nothing.

Police have a way of winding people up when questioning.
I imagine certain questions were very upsetting especially to a grief stricken parent.
Never mind the fact that it has been said there were plenty of problems with translation during most of the interviews.
You only have to see the problem getting proper statements with the Tevez interviews for example.

There are questions that just cannot be answered because of the way they are stated.

Anybody care to answer this question........"answering yes or no, it is true you have given up abusing children?"

Anybody who doesn't answer this question obviously abuses children etc...

Any takers?

 

[Anonymous]

Just because they didn't answer all questions asked of them (if even true) means nothing.

Police have a way of winding people up when questioning.
I imagine certain questions were very upsetting especially to a grief stricken parent.
Never mind the fact that it has been said there were plenty of problems with translation during most of the interviews.
You only have to see the problem getting proper statements with the Tevez interviews for example.

There are questions that just cannot be answered because of the way they are stated.

Anybody care to answer this question........"answering yes or no, it is true you have given up abusing children?"


Anybody who doesn't answer this question obviously abuses children etc...

Any takers?

no comment.

 

[fulabeer]

Just because they didn't answer all questions asked of them (if even true) means nothing.

Police have a way of winding people up when questioning.
I imagine certain questions were very upsetting especially to a grief stricken parent.
Never mind the fact that it has been said there were plenty of problems with translation during most of the interviews.
You only have to see the problem getting proper statements with the Tevez interviews for example.

There are questions that just cannot be answered because of the way they are stated.

Anybody care to answer this question........"answering yes or no, it is true you have given up abusing children?"


Anybody who doesn't answer this question obviously abuses children etc...

Any takers?

no comment.

LOL...!!! ;D

 

[nem]

Gavin McCann could take a hell of a shot though, or was that his bum chum Lee Hendrie?

 

[HelloCity]

What really happened that night (great vid)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGhlYTNisw[/youtube]

 

[PSmyth07]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

 

[mackenzie]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

Exactly.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

You'd think that wouldn't you but people take all sorts of secrets to their grave. Plus they know that one cracking would finish all the others.

Apart from one, all the group were doctors and they have a different attitude to morality to the rest of us.

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

Also these foreign courts are nothing better than an 18th century Kangaroo court, if the judge had a barney with old Anita in the morning you're screwed.

I mean look how slow the Portuguese plod were in swinging the investigation into gear.....they were sat about smoking cigars and drinking coffee between siestas, before asking if the parents had checked behind the settee and under the stairs- meanwhile Maddies getting further and further away. PC Predro actually makes our shower look half decent!

 

[MCFC BOB]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

If humans are capable of crashing planes into buildings resulting in their own death and the deaths of exactly 3,000 others, I think people are capable of living with this on their conscience.

 

[PSmyth07]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

If humans are capable of crashing planes into buildings resulting in their own death and the deaths of exactly 3,000 others, I think people are capable of living with this on their conscience.

Thats what I meant. I was looking at it for a few seconds thinking, 'That doesn't sound right...' :)

But I think thats hard to compare.

 

[MCFC-alan88]

Everyone assumes it was all 9 of them.

What's to say it was? How do we know (Lets say it was them for this) that it wasn't them and one other.

For example, one went to check the children, found Maddie dead and called over the McCann's without drawing concern from the others. It's a lot easier keeping a situation under control with less people knowing the full details.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Everyone assumes it was all 9 of them.

What's to say it was? How do we know (Lets say it was them for this) that it wasn't them and one other.

For example, one went to check the children, found Maddie dead and called over the McCann's without drawing concern from the others. It's a lot easier keeping a situation under control with less people knowing the full details.

or maybe the McCann's are the only 2 that know.

 

[mackenzie]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

You'd think that wouldn't you but people take all sorts of secrets to their grave. Plus they know that one cracking would finish all the others.

Apart from one, all the group were doctors and they have a different attitude to morality to the rest of us.

What? Doctors have a different attitude to morality????

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

The thing is, as much as i'd like the evidence that these videos found to be followed up, I just can't believe that them 9 people that were there could live with this on their conscious. I'd be traumatic.

Exactly.

I agree,it's highly improbable. (I guess this is the sort of crap that the Bristol landlord had to deal with). I hope she's found alive and well and that goes for any missing person no matter the age, race or religion.