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Making a Murderer
- Thread starter malg
- Start date
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
thats not an accurate reflection though. Its not like he hid the car in a back yard at all, it was a massive 5 acre scrap yard. And slitting the throat on a bed was a stupid thing for the prosecution to say, they couldnt prove that and shouldnt have said it, thats the silly way they do public pronouncements there. She was killed and buried there though, not bullshit
I'm not saying they definitely didn't do it but you're sounding more and more like Ken Kratz with each post!
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
So the article has no bias....
"The story has taken the world by storm and everyone is debating whether Steven Avery is innocent (yes he is, in my opinion) and if prosecutor Ken Kratz and the wankers in the Manitowoc police department are involved in framing an innocent man (also yes)."
The extracts from Reddit look like a year 9s coursework, laughable!!!
The article doesn't purport to be unbiased though. There are other articles online that are equally slanted against Avery.
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
Well-Known Member
The article doesn't purport to be unbiased though. There are other articles online that are equally slanted against Avery.
When the headline title stipulates 'greatest theory yet', or words to that effect, the poster is sensationalising the narrative..... There is nothing sensational about this case, other than the way it has been produced by the film maker....
The facts are now public record, can be found online with enough digging and from legitimate sources..: I have no problem with opinion, the director et al, have achieved there goal, which in turn have produced a world wide smash, bravo for that.. However, there is no grassy knoll 3rd shooter!!!!
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
When the headline title stipulates 'greatest theory yet', or words to that effect, the poster is sensationalising the narrative..... There is nothing sensational about this case, other than the way it has been produced by the film maker....
The facts are now public record, can be found online with enough digging and from legitimate sources..: I have no problem with opinion, the director et al, have achieved there goal, which in turn have produced a world wide smash, bravo for that.. However, there is no grassy knoll 3rd shooter!!!!
Yeah, fair point. I guess it's the greatest theory yet if you believe Avery and Dassey are completely innocent - it is a good theory though but it could be 100% wrong! My own thinking is that they could well be innocent but a small part of me thinks one or both could still have done it.
I know the programme seems to be biased in their favour but none of this is played out by actors - it's all real life footage and however it's been made they can't fake any of the stuff that the prosecution come out with that shows them in a bad light. Plus no-one can deny how disgraceful it was to coerce that confession out of a special needs kid without his attorney present!
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
Well-Known Member
Yeah, fair point. I guess it's the greatest theory yet if you believe Avery and Dassey are completely innocent - it is a good theory though but it could be 100% wrong! My own thinking is that they could well be innocent but a small part of me thinks one or both could still have done it.
I know the programme seems to be biased in their favour but none of this is played out by actors - it's all real life footage and however it's been made they can't fake any of the stuff that the prosecution come out with that shows them in a bad light. Plus no-one can deny how disgraceful it was to coerce that confession out of a special needs kid without his attorney present!
In the same breath mate, it's 10hrs over an estimated 200hrs of filming, you could make hitler look sane doing the same process... Key prosecution evidence has been omitted from the documentary, why??
Unfortunately the world loves a good conspiracy theory bud, it taps into the injustices of the mind... From a professional point of view, as someone who profiles people, this is a home run for me and out of the park with regards to there guilt... From a personal one, I was brought up on this shit from my mum and brother, both conspiracy theory enthusiasts, I thought JFK was popped by his brother for 20 years as he was double dipping Marilyn (:
This is merely my opinion and to quote old Stony "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one... Other than Ron Kovic" (:
M18CTID
Well-Known Member
In the same breath mate, it's 10hrs over an estimated 200hrs of filming, you could make hitler look sane doing the same process... Key prosecution evidence has been omitted from the documentary, why??
Unfortunately the world loves a good conspiracy theory bud, it taps into the injustices of the mind... From a professional point of view, as someone who profiles people, this is a home run for me and out of the park with regards to there guilt... From a personal one, I was brought up on this shit from my mum and brother, both conspiracy theory enthusiasts, I thought JFK was popped by his brother for 20 years as he was double dipping Marilyn (:
This is merely my opinion and to quote old Stony "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one... Other than Ron Kovic" (:
I think the main bit of omitted evidence was the DNA from Avery's perspiration on the inside of the hood of the RAV4 - that really should've been included.
Thing is, I'm not normally big on conspiracy theories and think most of them are complete bollocks! But I think it's plausible that something dodgy could've gone on in this case - there certainly seems to be good enough reason to stitch Avery up, and he had been stitched up on the rape case previously.
When the headline title stipulates 'greatest theory yet', or words to that effect, the poster is sensationalising the narrative..... There is nothing sensational about this case, other than the way it has been produced by the film maker....
The facts are now public record, can be found online with enough digging and from legitimate sources..: I have no problem with opinion, the director et al, have achieved there goal, which in turn have produced a world wide smash, bravo for that.. However, there is no grassy knoll 3rd shooter!!!!
There's nothing sensational about the case? How can you say that? I mean, I don't study many American cases but I'd hope these types of instances don't happen regularly:
1) Interviews of minors without lawyers or parents present
2) Vials of blood in police custody with clear hypodermic needle puncher marks and broken confidential seals
3) Planted evidence; key and blood
4) Police mishandling of investigation
5) Public news reporting form the police and prosecution
2) Vials of blood in police custody with clear hypodermic needle puncher marks and broken confidential seals
3) Planted evidence; key and blood
4) Police mishandling of investigation
5) Public news reporting form the police and prosecution
Now I'm not saying Steven Avery is definitely innocent, I'm really not sure. Equally I know there was some key evidence left out of the documentary but to claim this wasn't a sensational case...
I'm struggling to think he did it, however I suppose the sticking point would be, if he didn't do it, who did? And why would they want to frame him? Obviously answer if it was the local law enforcement but surely they wouldn't stoop so low as to to murder an innocent woman in the name of framing someone who had pissed them off??
You'd be surprised what pressures people will have been under in a small town that is about to pay out $38m!
It was Halloween night.Me too.
(Anyone) Without having to watch it over again, was there any explanation /reason for the bonfire that Steven invited Brandon over for?
Seems to have been pretty much ignored until Brendans trial. Which to me was odd because that was the only thing he was ever consistent on in his, eh, mind.
Exactly. That's the wages of about 150 people for 5 years (guessing at $50k average). That could be the budget for the county's fire service, police, schools etc. Not to mention the dent in brown paper bag revenues.You'd be surprised what pressures people will have been under in a small town that is about to pay out $38m!
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
Well-Known Member
There's nothing sensational about the case? How can you say that? I mean, I don't study many American cases but I'd hope these types of instances don't happen regularly:
1) Interviews of minors without lawyers or parents present
2) Vials of blood in police custody with clear hypodermic needle puncher marks and broken confidential seals
3) Planted evidence; key and blood
4) Police mishandling of investigation
5) Public news reporting form the police and prosecution
Now I'm not saying Steven Avery is definitely innocent, I'm really not sure. Equally I know there was some key evidence left out of the documentary but to claim this wasn't a sensational case...
Is this your first exposure to criminal cases from America??? It really isn't sensational in any way or form, however, as stated earlier, it's an extremely well made documentary...
Paul Lake's Left Knee
Well-Known Member
There's nothing sensational about the case? How can you say that? I mean, I don't study many American cases but I'd hope these types of instances don't happen regularly:
1) Interviews of minors without lawyers or parents present
2) Vials of blood in police custody with clear hypodermic needle puncher marks and broken confidential seals
3) Planted evidence; key and blood
4) Police mishandling of investigation
5) Public news reporting form the police and prosecution
Now I'm not saying Steven Avery is definitely innocent, I'm really not sure. Equally I know there was some key evidence left out of the documentary but to claim this wasn't a sensational case...
Think you missed out some of the key questions, why were bone fragments of the victim found in the quarry?? Also how did he smear blood in the car but not leave a finger print (the DNA found from sweaty hands also without leaving prints) and why would he put the victim in the car to move her a few yards to burn her? There was also the differing approaches to the 2 trials, in Steven's case they said the murder happened in the garage (despite there being no blood splatter and the only DNA bar the bullet being Steven's, although how Steven can explain how that bullet was fired by the gun they found in his bedroom was washed over in the documentary) but then in Brendan's case they were happy with his confession that it happened in the bedroom. Lenk was a particularly unbelievable and wasnt a credible witness in my eyes, at best misleading at worse down right lying, he'd been questioned days before in Steven's other case, and then was confused about the time he got to the crime scene, this after being ordered to desist, he and Colborn were integral in the key discovery.
I would have wanted answers to those things if I was a juror, however, having read some about some of the bits left out of the documentary, like the additional DNA and bullet, I am not at all convinced he was innocent. Brendan on the other hand, if you remove his 'confession' which he was coerced and without any representation, with there being no physical evidence against, I think I would have found not guilty, as without that confession there is nothing to find him guilty.
Barcon
Well-Known Member
thats not an accurate reflection though. Its not like he hid the car in a back yard at all, it was a massive 5 acre scrap yard. And slitting the throat on a bed was a stupid thing for the prosecution to say, they couldnt prove that and shouldnt have said it, thats the silly way they do public pronouncements there. She was killed and buried there though, not bullshit
I deleted my post because I couldn't figure out how to use the spoiler tag.
Anyway, where are those pics of your kitchen?
Last edited:
Is this your first exposure to criminal cases from America??? It really isn't sensational in any way or form, however, as stated earlier, it's an extremely well made documentary...
You're telling me that they have this level of incompetence, this level of fraud, this level of corrupt criminality on high profile murder cases, where the defendant has be wrongly sent down before and was suing the police and criminal justice service for $38m. Even if the documentary sensationalised things I just don't see how you can't perceive this be quite a remarkable case/story.
Think you missed out some of the key questions, why were bone fragments of the victim found in the quarry?? Also how did he smear blood in the car but not leave a finger print (the DNA found from sweaty hands also without leaving prints) and why would he put the victim in the car to move her a few yards to burn her? There was also the differing approaches to the 2 trials, in Steven's case they said the murder happened in the garage (despite there being no blood splatter and the only DNA bar the bullet being Steven's, although how Steven can explain how that bullet was fired by the gun they found in his bedroom was washed over in the documentary) but then in Brendan's case they were happy with his confession that it happened in the bedroom. Lenk was a particularly unbelievable and wasnt a credible witness in my eyes, at best misleading at worse down right lying, he'd been questioned days before in Steven's other case, and then was confused about the time he got to the crime scene, this after being ordered to desist, he and Colborn were integral in the key discovery.
I would have wanted answers to those things if I was a juror, however, having read some about some of the bits left out of the documentary, like the additional DNA and bullet, I am not at all convinced he was innocent. Brendan on the other hand, if you remove his 'confession' which he was coerced and without any representation, with there being no physical evidence against, I think I would have found not guilty, as without that confession there is nothing to find him guilty.
Yeah completely agree mate. Incredible case and not sure we will ever know the full truth. Only case I've found even more fascinating was the murder of meredith kutcher and that has some similarities to this; police corruption, trial by media etc.
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
Well-Known Member
You're telling me that they have this level of incompetence, this level of fraud, this level of corrupt criminality on high profile murder cases, where the defendant has be wrongly sent down before and was suing the police and criminal justice service for $38m. Even if the documentary sensationalised things I just don't see how you can't perceive this be quite a remarkable case/story.
So that's a no then? I'm not being patronising but do some research, you might be surprised...
So that's a no then? I'm not being patronising but do some research, you might be surprised...
Okay I will do but since you're an expert why don't you just tell me?
Blue&whitestripes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 Jun 2014
- Messages
- 479
Just seen this http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movie...z-sent-to-making-a-murderers-steven-avery.php and can only agree with the author's description of Kratz as a "weaselly jerk"
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
Well-Known Member
Okay I will do but since you're an expert why don't you just tell me?
Expert? No
More informed? Absolutely
Try researching the Memphis 3, Randall Adams, maybe look at https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...0fc3a2-1aae-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html
Or the innocence project, the one that denied Avery any assistance following his removal of right to counsel...
Compare and contrast the Memphis 3 case, then you tell me which was 'sensational' and 'sensationalism'...