Mancini fear of failure?

[jay_mcfc]

Big whoooosh there I think

I'm well aware of what he was saying.
Thrives on his sarcasm does Prestwich blue

 

[SWP's back]

Big whoooosh there I think

Knew you'd catch up at some point.

I was never behind.

 

[peoffrey]

I still believe we will finish 3rd and get to a cup final.

Which Cup Final would you prefer?

The FA Cup Final is achievable because Arsenal and that lot face each other in the next round which then leaves only one of the top 2 sides in the Country to take on. I'm just not looking forwards to the possibility of taking Everton on. The fuckers always do us.

The Europa is an interesting one. It's the next best sides in Europe all competing for European glory. Starting our new trophy haul with this pot won't be anything to be ashamed of!

4th and FA Cup Final for me.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I still believe we will finish 3rd and get to a cup final.

Which Cup Final would you prefer?

The FA Cup Final is achievable because Arsenal and that lot face each other in the next round which then leaves only one of the top 2 sides in the Country to take on. I'm just not looking forwards to the possibility of taking Everton on. The fuckers always do us.

The Europa is an interesting one. It's the next best sides in Europe all competing for European glory. Starting our new trophy haul with this pot won't be anything to be ashamed of!

4th and FA Cup Final for me.

Er, Villa? Hate it when City fans start talking like this!

 

[redmizzle]

There have been some interesting posts in this thread over the course of the day so I thought I'd weight in with some input.

I find the "team spirit/mentality" point interesting. For me sunday typified what I think is wrong with the players, the performance showed it. They either don't care, which I doubt is the case purely because they must have personal and professional pride, or they don't believe they can achieve the goals set out for them. Now there could be a variety of reasons for that. They might not have the confidence in a new league in their first season, they might not feel comfortable in the team in the role asked of them or with the players around them. They might not believe in the manager(I believe quite a few don't), his tactics, style of play, management skills or quite possibly they might not believe the team is good enough without Vinnie, Nige and Silva. I think there is a substantial problem because I believe players like Tevez do not believe in the manager, I think that is the crux of it. The noises in the first month after Mancini arrived for example, his frustration with Roberto on several occassions, I just think he doesn't believe in the manager and his style. Carlos is a very determined and resolute person, and I think Kia has preyed on it and that's what led to the transfer request. Who knows Tevez could actually like the club and the fans but he might just not get on with the boss. Maybe if Mancini left Tevez would commit long term, I don't know it's just a thought I'm working with. I think this may drip into team affairs as the other players see that there isn't a smooth relationship and maybe sides are formed or maybe because we have so many indivistualistic players that there isn't a team harmony or spirit. Perhaps the players don't have the desire to "die" for the shirt to help out their team mates, because they don't have that connection to them, or maybe because such emphasis has been placed on Carlos that the others just go "well he'll sort it out for us" and won't take the responsibility and make things happen, I think it's a double edged sword because Carlos won't necessarily trust players with the ball in key areas that he doesn't believe will do a better job than him with the ball.

For Mancini I think he has made numerous mistakes and that he needs to be far more flexible. I think his "I'm the boss and I'll do what I want" approach leaves something to be desired because a great man manager will work with people and get the best out of them and put his personal differences aside, for me Mancini has fucked off several important and talented players too eagerly and it's hindering us. I think he needs to be a bit more reasonable, there's nothing wrong with being firm but he needs to be constructive and show to potentially tricky players that he can put differences aside for the good of the team, it's not good for the team to lose talented players because Mancini point blank refuses to budge from his cast in stone ways, you don't always get away with it.

Also it's all very well and good changing formations, but it's not enough. Changing the way we play, the speed we move the ball, the way we attack, the way we use the ball from the back makes a bigger difference, pushing Kolarov up the left wing doesn't do an awful lot different. We are so utterly one dimensional, we lack pace, creativity and on the flip side without De Jong, Vinnie and Zaba we lack determination, drive, steel and a fighting spirit. There's too many individuals, and unfortunately our squad is deficient and in 3 transfer windows Mancini has failed to give us enough depth, options and variety. He needs to learn that when his plan doesn't work that he has to accept it and change it up, bring on pacy wingers, spread the play and give the opposition something different to think about, we don't have enough balance, it's like Dzeko, £27m in January when the one thing that was working was Silva off Carlos, and we've gone backwards since in performance and shape. If Carlos is leaving in the summer then buy the replacement in the summer, who was gonna buy Dzeko? nobody!. Don't buy him in January and change the whole setup of the team, and it goes back to not leading by example and trying to forge a good relationship with tricky players. Ade could have done a perfectly good job till the summer, he was doing fine till Mancini fucked him off for whatever reason, and Ade has played with Tevez and wouldn't have disrupted the team so much. Why try and re-gel a way of playing and setup in the crucial part of the season? This should have been done last june.

My frustration with the way we play is evident, and I believe there are a great deal of things Mancini should strive to improve on. Just because he has coaching badges and previous success does not automatically mean he's right about everything, nor does my lack of the above make me wrong, of course it's subjective, and I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my opinion and a rebuffal of people who will go "you're just on a forum so don't know what you're talking about". For me Mancini needs to improve his flexibility, man up and take responsibility and move forward. His punt on Balo still leaves me uneasy because yes he has scored goals but he does less overall for the team than Robinho and uses barely half of his talent and he has completely the wrong attitude and pisses me off. For such praise that Balo gives Mancini etc. then it really doesn't add up when Balo is still the same lazy, arrogant, half arsed little moody kid he was back at Inter.

I said back in October after the West Brom debacle that Mancini would have to work hard to allay my doubts about him because of what I thought of that and the fact we only finished 5th last season. For me we have made little to no progress as the points we have is the same as last year and we've been going backwards in recent months in performances. If we're tired it is solely Mancini's fault for a) not having enough squad depth b) not getting us through comfortably in cup games that we should have done. To be honest I don't know if I do want him out or not, I'm unhappy with him but at the same time there isn't anyone else who convinces me that they would do an infinitely better job. I just hope that we get through the rest of the season and into the Champions League, but it looks unlikelier after each game we play. For those who say those of us who complain are "spoilt", we're not, wanting the best possible outcome from a situation and always striving for more and improvements is what the human race is founded on in principle so it is in no way spoilt.

I don't blame the new players, they were bought and I believe try to do as best as they can in an unfamiliar league and often in difficult circumstances. Shifting Kolarov up the left wing can hardly inspire him with confidence, and dumping Jerome out of the team every other game the same. I believe they will all get better, how much better depends on how willing Mancini is to fit them in to a comfortable system that enhances their performance, and how much confidence and belief he can inspire them with.

The fans need to do their bit too. I may "moan" a lot on here about games and our performances, but at the game bar the odd groan I will encourage and support the side, despite what you want to believe. I think the crap attendances and lack of atmosphere need to stop and the fans need to get behind the team no matter what on matchdays, because otherwise we will fall flat on our face once again. They need our support and belief in them, the same way they do from the management. Let's back the boys.

You make some good points and sorry to be picky but weren't you the same poster who was completely adamant that booing players you considered as shit might encourage the manager to drop them? Basically advocating booing the team since boos don't have names written on them?

JoeMercer'sWay
Post subject: Re: The Treatment Of Jo Is Unacceptable
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:11 pm

Replies: 184
Views: 5696


he's shit and isn't welcome to wear our shirt imo, the more you boo the more it hopefully it encourages Mancini to get rid of him and bring a footballer in in his place.

Just a little confused on where you stand on the issue that's all.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

There have been some interesting posts in this thread over the course of the day so I thought I'd weight in with some input.

I find the "team spirit/mentality" point interesting. For me sunday typified what I think is wrong with the players, the performance showed it. They either don't care, which I doubt is the case purely because they must have personal and professional pride, or they don't believe they can achieve the goals set out for them. Now there could be a variety of reasons for that. They might not have the confidence in a new league in their first season, they might not feel comfortable in the team in the role asked of them or with the players around them. They might not believe in the manager(I believe quite a few don't), his tactics, style of play, management skills or quite possibly they might not believe the team is good enough without Vinnie, Nige and Silva. I think there is a substantial problem because I believe players like Tevez do not believe in the manager, I think that is the crux of it. The noises in the first month after Mancini arrived for example, his frustration with Roberto on several occassions, I just think he doesn't believe in the manager and his style. Carlos is a very determined and resolute person, and I think Kia has preyed on it and that's what led to the transfer request. Who knows Tevez could actually like the club and the fans but he might just not get on with the boss. Maybe if Mancini left Tevez would commit long term, I don't know it's just a thought I'm working with. I think this may drip into team affairs as the other players see that there isn't a smooth relationship and maybe sides are formed or maybe because we have so many indivistualistic players that there isn't a team harmony or spirit. Perhaps the players don't have the desire to "die" for the shirt to help out their team mates, because they don't have that connection to them, or maybe because such emphasis has been placed on Carlos that the others just go "well he'll sort it out for us" and won't take the responsibility and make things happen, I think it's a double edged sword because Carlos won't necessarily trust players with the ball in key areas that he doesn't believe will do a better job than him with the ball.

For Mancini I think he has made numerous mistakes and that he needs to be far more flexible. I think his "I'm the boss and I'll do what I want" approach leaves something to be desired because a great man manager will work with people and get the best out of them and put his personal differences aside, for me Mancini has fucked off several important and talented players too eagerly and it's hindering us. I think he needs to be a bit more reasonable, there's nothing wrong with being firm but he needs to be constructive and show to potentially tricky players that he can put differences aside for the good of the team, it's not good for the team to lose talented players because Mancini point blank refuses to budge from his cast in stone ways, you don't always get away with it.

Also it's all very well and good changing formations, but it's not enough. Changing the way we play, the speed we move the ball, the way we attack, the way we use the ball from the back makes a bigger difference, pushing Kolarov up the left wing doesn't do an awful lot different. We are so utterly one dimensional, we lack pace, creativity and on the flip side without De Jong, Vinnie and Zaba we lack determination, drive, steel and a fighting spirit. There's too many individuals, and unfortunately our squad is deficient and in 3 transfer windows Mancini has failed to give us enough depth, options and variety. He needs to learn that when his plan doesn't work that he has to accept it and change it up, bring on pacy wingers, spread the play and give the opposition something different to think about, we don't have enough balance, it's like Dzeko, £27m in January when the one thing that was working was Silva off Carlos, and we've gone backwards since in performance and shape. If Carlos is leaving in the summer then buy the replacement in the summer, who was gonna buy Dzeko? nobody!. Don't buy him in January and change the whole setup of the team, and it goes back to not leading by example and trying to forge a good relationship with tricky players. Ade could have done a perfectly good job till the summer, he was doing fine till Mancini fucked him off for whatever reason, and Ade has played with Tevez and wouldn't have disrupted the team so much. Why try and re-gel a way of playing and setup in the crucial part of the season? This should have been done last june.

My frustration with the way we play is evident, and I believe there are a great deal of things Mancini should strive to improve on. Just because he has coaching badges and previous success does not automatically mean he's right about everything, nor does my lack of the above make me wrong, of course it's subjective, and I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my opinion and a rebuffal of people who will go "you're just on a forum so don't know what you're talking about". For me Mancini needs to improve his flexibility, man up and take responsibility and move forward. His punt on Balo still leaves me uneasy because yes he has scored goals but he does less overall for the team than Robinho and uses barely half of his talent and he has completely the wrong attitude and pisses me off. For such praise that Balo gives Mancini etc. then it really doesn't add up when Balo is still the same lazy, arrogant, half arsed little moody kid he was back at Inter.

I said back in October after the West Brom debacle that Mancini would have to work hard to allay my doubts about him because of what I thought of that and the fact we only finished 5th last season. For me we have made little to no progress as the points we have is the same as last year and we've been going backwards in recent months in performances. If we're tired it is solely Mancini's fault for a) not having enough squad depth b) not getting us through comfortably in cup games that we should have done. To be honest I don't know if I do want him out or not, I'm unhappy with him but at the same time there isn't anyone else who convinces me that they would do an infinitely better job. I just hope that we get through the rest of the season and into the Champions League, but it looks unlikelier after each game we play. For those who say those of us who complain are "spoilt", we're not, wanting the best possible outcome from a situation and always striving for more and improvements is what the human race is founded on in principle so it is in no way spoilt.

I don't blame the new players, they were bought and I believe try to do as best as they can in an unfamiliar league and often in difficult circumstances. Shifting Kolarov up the left wing can hardly inspire him with confidence, and dumping Jerome out of the team every other game the same. I believe they will all get better, how much better depends on how willing Mancini is to fit them in to a comfortable system that enhances their performance, and how much confidence and belief he can inspire them with.

The fans need to do their bit too. I may "moan" a lot on here about games and our performances, but at the game bar the odd groan I will encourage and support the side, despite what you want to believe. I think the crap attendances and lack of atmosphere need to stop and the fans need to get behind the team no matter what on matchdays, because otherwise we will fall flat on our face once again. They need our support and belief in them, the same way they do from the management. Let's back the boys.

You make some good points and sorry to be picky but weren't you the same poster who was completely adamant that booing players you considered as shit might encourage the manager to drop them? Basically advocating booing the team since boos don't have names written on them?

JoeMercer'sWay
Post subject: Re: The Treatment Of Jo Is Unacceptable
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:11 pm

Replies: 184
Views: 5696


he's shit and isn't welcome to wear our shirt imo, the more you boo the more it hopefully it encourages Mancini to get rid of him and bring a footballer in in his place.

Just a little confused on where you stand on the issue that's all.

i was messing about, teasing, though do you really class Jo as a footballer? :P.

 

[redmizzle]

That clears it up then.

Regarding Jo, i personally don't buy into the Bluemoon concensus that ''he's shit'', that's too simplistic for me. He's no Messi but he certainly isn't ''shit''. Do i think he's a footballer? Is that really a serious question? Well he's definitely not a pilot ;)

 

[alera]

Honestly despite the problems we can't get rid of another manager. Its the road to ruin as we have found out constantly over the last 30 years.

Hughes wasn't the man to take us forward but this guy has the trophies and contacts and experience to get us where we want to go given the time.

It sounds mental but for me the squad still isn't right because of the badly balanced mess of egos and attitude problems he inherited. With our best squad of 18 we could beat just about anyone we just don't have it available for long enough spells this season and with pretty much a full team out on loan for various reasons we don't have the cover we need with so many games.

Honestly this season i think it's a choice champions league or win something. For me it's champion league the whole future of the club rests on us getting in there before ffp kicks in. With all the money spent and the players we have signed I am confident we will start winning things sooner or latter I just don't think it will be this season.

 

[mancity1]

That's what will determine how the owners view a choice of manager that they have sanctioned and how the senior staff from the CEO are viewed if we fail to obtain Champions League football this season.

Its highly likely that was Mancini's target at the start of the season.

There is every possibility we will fall short again this season.

Will sacking the manager increase the chances of qualifying next season?

Which players will leave if he stays or goes irrespective of where we finish and who is in charge next season?

What of the owners vision of long term success and sustainability on and off the pitch?

I don't think sacking a manger every 18 months was part of that "project".

 

[peoffrey]

Which Cup Final would you prefer?

The FA Cup Final is achievable because Arsenal and that lot face each other in the next round which then leaves only one of the top 2 sides in the Country to take on. I'm just not looking forwards to the possibility of taking Everton on. The fuckers always do us.

The Europa is an interesting one. It's the next best sides in Europe all competing for European glory. Starting our new trophy haul with this pot won't be anything to be ashamed of!

4th and FA Cup Final for me.

Er, Villa? Hate it when City fans start talking like this!

What? Read my post again. The POSSIBILITY of taking Everton on. Fortunately, that ain't gonna happen for either us or Villa.

If Villa beat us tonight then I'll buy the Pints.