Mancini out? (merged)

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

258 pages on and Mancini is still our manager. Fully expect him to be sort the start of next season as well. I think our owners have more class and foresight than the Mancini out brigade on here. Time will tell..

so what happens IF the owners decide to change the team's manager ? Would they lose their class and foresight if they do just the opposite of what you expect of them?

 

[Davs 19]

258 pages on and Mancini is still our manager. Fully expect him to be sort the start of next season as well. I think our owners have more class and foresight than the Mancini out brigade on here. Time will tell..

so what happens IF the owners decide to change the team's manager ? Would they lose their class and foresight if they did just the opposite of what you expect of them?

IMO , yes, to an extent. However it is their club and the choice is theirs. It's also my club and whoever is Manager, I'll still be at the match 100 % behind us.

 

[Danamy]

http://www.mcfc.co.uk/citytv/match-highlights/2011/august/spurs-v-city-extended-highlights?play=1

Why can't we create a performance like above anymore?

Motivation?
Sussed Out?
Everyone's got better?
We've got worse?

What's the answer?

I want my City back :-(

What do you do when a team is happy to play two rows of 5 and are happy to stay like that even when they are 1 and 2 goals down?

Even Barcelona struggle when teams do that and it only usually happen in champs league games, teams in the Spanish league try to have a go..

We have struggled with lots of teams (Dortmund , Liverpool, Ajax, Southampton have all done it twice) who have pressed us high up the park and attacked us. And back in the 'golden era' of the first half of last season, loads of teams defended deep against us. We used to play at such a tempo we'd put five past them.

Man utd have faced defensive teams for years and have worked out ways of going round them.

Do you know what's even more baffling, the team we played against Spurs last season and the team we played against Southampton last week only had one change (Kompany for Garcia) the rest of the side is exactly the same?.........what the fuck has happened?

Take 10 mins of your time and watch the highlights of that Spurs game again, the movement, switching play, interplay, tempo, attack with pace, tempo, tempo, tempo, what the fuck has gone wrong?

Remember these are the same 10 players that took to the field at Southampton...........

 

[Bluemoon115]

It's our plan B. Dzeko on, with wing backs. Thing is it's one or the other with us

A system that has worked all of once.

"One or the other" doesn't sound like a situation a top manager would be in.

You mean like Guardiola and the greatest football team we have ever seen

Shameless you lot

Because it wasn't one or the other. He found a way to blend patient build up through the middle with a pacey attack via the wings, which created chaos in defence.

As opposed to our systems, which on many occasions have just caused chaos within our own side.

 

[The Future's Blue]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

 

[NoahCity]

What do you do when a team is happy to play two rows of 5 and are happy to stay like that even when they are 1 and 2 goals down?

Even Barcelona struggle when teams do that and it only usually happen in champs league games, teams in the Spanish league try to have a go..

We have struggled with lots of teams (Dortmund , Liverpool, Ajax, Southampton have all done it twice) who have pressed us high up the park and attacked us. And back in the 'golden era' of the first half of last season, loads of teams defended deep against us. We used to play at such a tempo we'd put five past them.

Man utd have faced defensive teams for years and have worked out ways of going round them.

Accurate whipped crossing being chief among them. I watched the rags game in Madrid follow a predictably tiresome pattern, and not for the first time marvelled at the ignorance of the pundits on duty as to how the rags play. The myth of the rags as a great footballing side has become so entrenched in the minds of some of these people that they can't see the wood for the trees. The commentator seemed genuinely amazed that the rags had scored more headed goals (19) than any other team in all 4 divisions this season. Lord knows why? They routinely take the field with half a dozen players standing 6ft 2' or taller (at one stage against Madrid, they had 8 such players on the field), and both the wingers and full backs specialise in vicious, flat, whipped crosses across the edge of the 6 yard box that take away all of a defender's natural advantages and require only a touch to divert them home. Even a circus dwarf like Evra has managed to get his noggin on the end of 5 of them this season! And Van Persie's corners are so evil they are tantamount to shots. It's real percentage stuff that owes little to spontaneity and much to endless drilling on the training ground.
City choose to play a different game, which is fine, but to not have this simple tactic even as an option baffles me. Barcelona don't have it in their portfolio either and I've watched them get frustrated by Chelsea and Celtic (twice each) and indeed by Milan tonight, as a consequence

And that is why Bayern are the best in the world, they have both options.

 

[Bluemoon115]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

It wasn't a manager that opened this door for us....

 

[Anonymous]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

Obviously.

 

[chesterbells]

We have struggled with lots of teams (Dortmund , Liverpool, Ajax, Southampton have all done it twice) who have pressed us high up the park and attacked us. And back in the 'golden era' of the first half of last season, loads of teams defended deep against us. We used to play at such a tempo we'd put five past them.

Man utd have faced defensive teams for years and have worked out ways of going round them.

Accurate whipped crossing being chief among them. I watched the rags game in Madrid follow a predictably tiresome pattern, and not for the first time marvelled at the ignorance of the pundits on duty as to how the rags play. The myth of the rags as a great footballing side has become so entrenched in the minds of some of these people that they can't see the wood for the trees. The commentator seemed genuinely amazed that the rags had scored more headed goals (19) than any other team in all 4 divisions this season. Lord knows why? They routinely take the field with half a dozen players standing 6ft 2' or taller (at one stage against Madrid, they had 8 such players on the field), and both the wingers and full backs specialise in vicious, flat, whipped crosses across the edge of the 6 yard box that take away all of a defender's natural advantages and require only a touch to divert them home. Even a circus dwarf like Evra has managed to get his noggin on the end of 5 of them this season! And Van Persie's corners are so evil they are tantamount to shots. It's real percentage stuff that owes little to spontaneity and much to endless drilling on the training ground.
City choose to play a different game, which is fine, but to not have this simple tactic even as an option baffles me. Barcelona don't have it in their portfolio either and I've watched them get frustrated by Chelsea and Celtic (twice each) and indeed by Milan tonight, as a consequence

It's a point I've made many times mate and one I think you and i have discussed before. The way to beat a defensive team is to stretch them and get behind them and deliver balls into the box. A flat cross coming at a defender from behind him is muchharder to defend that one coming from in front of him. Richards can do it but we've missed him all season. Milner can do it quite well. Maicon can actually do it ok too. Kolorov can. But all of our players who can go outside defenders and deliver these flat crosses are not first choice players, and are naturally defensive players. Apart from Micah who we have missed dreadfully. Our attack minded players do not do this. Silva and nasri come inside players and play through the middle. So do aguero and Tevez.

It's one of the big imbalances in our squad. We try to readdress this with the 352 but that brings it own problems defensively, especially when we are relying on Maicon and kolorov as the only effective crossers from wing back. Neither can get back to defend quickly enough.

Interesting discussion. Crosses have had some bad press recently. Knew I'd read it somewhere, this is the quickest I could find:

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack/2012/07/17/the-state-of-analytics-crosses-are-not-an-efficient-way-to-score-goals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack ... core-goals</a>—kuper/

I agree about uniteds effectiveness being in part due to their wide players, but I also take seriously this analysis about crosses and goals.
I think with them it is the combination of stretching the play, taller players, crosses - and above all our old friend pace.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

It wasn't a manager that opened this door for us....

How far would you like to go back?

 

[The Future's Blue]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

The awesomeness of that is just awesome :)

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

It shows how far we have come that we can be actively thinking that Mourinho could be our next manager. Definately a pipe-dream 3 years back.

I wonder which manager opened this door for us?

It wasn't a manager that opened this door for us....

How far would you like to go back?

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

It wasn't a manager that opened this door for us....

How far would you like to go back?

I'll raise you a Joe Royle.

 

[andyhinch]

It wasn't a manager that opened this door for us....

How far would you like to go back?

If Corky1970 was going to punch you in the face, how would you react?

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

It's our plan B. Dzeko on, with wing backs. Thing is it's one or the other with us

A system that has worked all of once.

"One or the other" doesn't sound like a situation a top manager would be in.

You mean like Guardiola and the greatest football team we have ever seen

Shameless you lot

Not at all. I've loved watching Barca these past few years. Interesting though that 2 British teams have thrown up a roadblock against them 4 times in the last 8 months, and succeeded in thwarting Barca on all 4 occasions. Points to a flaw in the system.

As regards City, the high press has been effective against us this season as well as the parked bus, although our deficiencies in that former regard have been more to do with lack of individual pace and athleticism than tactical oversight. I yield to no-one in terms of my respect for what Gaz Baz has brought to the team these last 4 years, but he really struggles against teams that hound him in possession. These might sound like petty gripes given what we've enjoyed these last 2 years, but we're talking fine margins in terms of future success now, and our ability to cope with whatever the opposition might throw at us is key. The rags have pretty much perfected the art down the years. They've been poor several times this season, but those bastard crosses have served as a virtual get out of jail free card for them, to the point that they're looking at a return of close to 100 points.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Accurate whipped crossing being chief among them. I watched the rags game in Madrid follow a predictably tiresome pattern, and not for the first time marvelled at the ignorance of the pundits on duty as to how the rags play. The myth of the rags as a great footballing side has become so entrenched in the minds of some of these people that they can't see the wood for the trees. The commentator seemed genuinely amazed that the rags had scored more headed goals (19) than any other team in all 4 divisions this season. Lord knows why? They routinely take the field with half a dozen players standing 6ft 2' or taller (at one stage against Madrid, they had 8 such players on the field), and both the wingers and full backs specialise in vicious, flat, whipped crosses across the edge of the 6 yard box that take away all of a defender's natural advantages and require only a touch to divert them home. Even a circus dwarf like Evra has managed to get his noggin on the end of 5 of them this season! And Van Persie's corners are so evil they are tantamount to shots. It's real percentage stuff that owes little to spontaneity and much to endless drilling on the training ground.
City choose to play a different game, which is fine, but to not have this simple tactic even as an option baffles me. Barcelona don't have it in their portfolio either and I've watched them get frustrated by Chelsea and Celtic (twice each) and indeed by Milan tonight, as a consequence

It's a point I've made many times mate and one I think you and i have discussed before. The way to beat a defensive team is to stretch them and get behind them and deliver balls into the box. A flat cross coming at a defender from behind him is muchharder to defend that one coming from in front of him. Richards can do it but we've missed him all season. Milner can do it quite well. Maicon can actually do it ok too. Kolorov can. But all of our players who can go outside defenders and deliver these flat crosses are not first choice players, and are naturally defensive players. Apart from Micah who we have missed dreadfully. Our attack minded players do not do this. Silva and nasri come inside players and play through the middle. So do aguero and Tevez.

It's one of the big imbalances in our squad. We try to readdress this with the 352 but that brings it own problems defensively, especially when we are relying on Maicon and kolorov as the only effective crossers from wing back. Neither can get back to defend quickly enough.

Interesting discussion. Crosses have had some bad press recently. Knew I'd read it somewhere, this is the quickest I could find:

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack/2012/07/17/the-state-of-analytics-crosses-are-not-an-efficient-way-to-score-goals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack ... core-goals</a>—kuper/

I agree about uniteds effectiveness being in part due to their wide players, but I also take seriously this analysis about crosses and goals.
I think with them it is the combination of stretching the play, taller players, crosses - and above all our old friend pace.

I don't think crosses are the be all and end all. Far from it. When we were at our best we were all about two touch football, movement and quick breaks, as danamy says above. Getting behind teams is the way to beat stubborn, defensive teams. Particularly late in the game. We let ourselves get pushed too deep a lot these days, a problem we had in the 2011 season which we largely cured but now it's back. Our holding players get sucked too deep, there's a big gap between them and the attacking four, meaning we can't get the link play going and we surrender midfield control. Liverpool home and Southampton were good examples of this. Mancini doesn't seem to see this or address it enough.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

It's a point I've made many times mate and one I think you and i have discussed before. The way to beat a defensive team is to stretch them and get behind them and deliver balls into the box. A flat cross coming at a defender from behind him is muchharder to defend that one coming from in front of him. Richards can do it but we've missed him all season. Milner can do it quite well. Maicon can actually do it ok too. Kolorov can. But all of our players who can go outside defenders and deliver these flat crosses are not first choice players, and are naturally defensive players. Apart from Micah who we have missed dreadfully. Our attack minded players do not do this. Silva and nasri come inside players and play through the middle. So do aguero and Tevez.

It's one of the big imbalances in our squad. We try to readdress this with the 352 but that brings it own problems defensively, especially when we are relying on Maicon and kolorov as the only effective crossers from wing back. Neither can get back to defend quickly enough.

Interesting discussion. Crosses have had some bad press recently. Knew I'd read it somewhere, this is the quickest I could find:

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack/2012/07/17/the-state-of-analytics-crosses-are-not-an-efficient-way-to-score-goals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack ... core-goals</a>—kuper/

I agree about uniteds effectiveness being in part due to their wide players, but I also take seriously this analysis about crosses and goals.
I think with them it is the combination of stretching the play, taller players, crosses - and above all our old friend pace.

I don't think crosses are the be all and end all. Far from it. When we were at our best we were all about two touch football, movement and quick breaks, as danamy says above. Getting behind teams is the way to beat stubborn, defensive teams. Particularly late in the game. We let ourselves get pushed too deep a lot these days, a problem we had in the 2011 season which we largely cured but now it's back. Our holding players get sucked too deep, there's a big gap between them and the attacking four, meaning we can't get the link play going the and we surrender midfield control. Liverpool home and Southampton were good examples of this. Mancini doesn't seem to see this or address it enough.

The Dortmund home game was a good example of this as well. Bloody ball kept coming straight back at us time and again, because we couldn't get the engine room up to support the isolated front men

 

[Yaya_Tony]

the faults with you if you don't rate him as a coach (no offense intended)

I know the quote is about someone else, but anyone could easily say the same about your views on Mancini.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Interesting discussion. Crosses have had some bad press recently. Knew I'd read it somewhere, this is the quickest I could find:

<a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack/2012/07/17/the-state-of-analytics-crosses-are-not-an-efficient-way-to-score-goals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://blogs.thescore.com/counterattack ... core-goals</a>—kuper/

I agree about uniteds effectiveness being in part due to their wide players, but I also take seriously this analysis about crosses and goals.
I think with them it is the combination of stretching the play, taller players, crosses - and above all our old friend pace.

I don't think crosses are the be all and end all. Far from it. When we were at our best we were all about two touch football, movement and quick breaks, as danamy says above. Getting behind teams is the way to beat stubborn, defensive teams. Particularly late in the game. We let ourselves get pushed too deep a lot these days, a problem we had in the 2011 season which we largely cured but now it's back. Our holding players get sucked too deep, there's a big gap between them and the attacking four, meaning we can't get the link play going the and we surrender midfield control. Liverpool home and Southampton were good examples of this. Mancini doesn't seem to see this or address it enough.

The Dortmund home game was a good example of this as well. Bloody ball kept coming straight back at us time and again, because we couldn't get the engine room up to support the isolated front men

You're right. You know when I thought we'd cured this problem? Wembley 2011 against united. First 20 mins they came at us and de Jong and Barry sat deeper and deeper, letting them play in front of them. Mancini to his credit seemed to spot this and was screaming at them to push up, they did, making themselves a 3 with yaya and we took control of the game. But now it is coming back and it's a problem. Not against Leeds where we all pushed on and they couldn't play, but they were very poor. It's going to be key to the game against Chelsea I feel.