Mancini out? (merged)

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Rolee said:
From what I've read it appears the opposite is the case in relation to how Txixi views Jose. Could you point me in the direction of where these commentators express that view? Thanks in advance.

Graham Hunter, author of the definitive account of the modern Barcelona (details here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Barca-Making-Greatest-Team-World/dp/0956497152/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361446542&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Barca-Making-Gr ... 542&sr=8-1</a>) has written:

Mourinho had prepared what Ingla and Begiristain remember to be a brilliant power-point demonstration. His self-belief was clearly intact; he understood intimately the challenges ahead of Barça’s next coach, had deduced from a distance what was going wrong and had clear views on the best way out of the mess they were in. In normal circumstances the material, and the man, on show would have been so dazzling, so convincing that the argument would have become whether to give him the job there and then.

...

Ingla confirms: “There was one moment when I said to him, ‘José, the problem we have with you is that you push the media too much. There is too much aggression. The coach is the image of the club.

...

Ingla and Begiristain had an ace up their sleeve. The job was theirs to give and they felt no desperation about filling the post – largely because they already suspected that Guardiola was the man to rescue Barcelona.

...

Begiristain, too, left Portugal racked with concerns.

The director of football was now convinced that Barça would win trophies if Mourinho was appointed three-and-a-half months down the line, in June 2008. Like Ingla, however, he’d found the Special One wanting.

The director of football was now convinced that Barça would win trophies if Mourinho was appointed three-and-a-half months down the line, in June 2008.

Begiristain couldn’t imagine Mourinho understanding that the club didn’t want or need outbursts in the media two or three times a week. What’s more, the Basque felt that the Barça he was trying to build valued respect for the opponent, honour in defeat, dignity and other fragile concepts more highly than Mourinho did at that time, or perhaps ever would. Begiristain, on the flight back to El Prat airport, knew that they were about to play a percentage game.

He was 100% sure, and remains so to this day, that Barça would have trained well, played decent, if pragmatic, football and won trophies.

...

Ferran Soriano [the Barcelona General Manager] describes the mood of the expeditionary force when Ingla and Begiristain returned from Portugal. “Txiki and Marc thought that Mourinho was very well prepared,” he recalls. “He had a PowerPoint display on how he would manage everything. They spent three hours with him and both came away thinking Mourinho was not our guy. Marc said that Mourinho spoke 90% of the time and didn’t listen. He said: ‘I just don’t like him.’

“Txiki was a bit more rational. He said: ‘Mourinho would do well, but the number of fires he would cause internally, and with the media, are not worth it.’"

In other words, Txiki recognises that Mourinho is a brilliant coach who'll win things. Mourinho was the wrong fit for Barcelona at the time. That doesn't mean that he'll be the wrong fit for City now, and if that's the only issue with him in terms of managing us at this stage, it won't be Txiki's call to make. It will be Mansour, guided by Khaldoon and Simon Pearce.

Of course, they'll ask for Txiki's input on the football aspects of the decision and be guided by that. But the image and how Mourinho will reflect on Abu Dhabi? No, that decision will be made by people above Ferran and Txiki.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Rolee said:
From what I've read it appears the opposite is the case in relation to how Txixi views Jose. Could you point me in the direction of where these commentators express that view? Thanks in advance.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/oct/28/pep-guardiola-manchester-city

Two paragraphs from the article (by Sid Lowe) which are relevant.

Yet Barcelona had begun a slide under Rijkaard and even before the 2007-08 season was finished Begiristain had determined a change was needed, even as some on the board resisted. The decision may even have come late, but it did finally come. Begiristain said Rijkaard had lost control of the dressing room.

Begiristain had travelled to Lisbon with two directors, Marc Ingla and Ferran Soriano, to see Mourinho. The presentation was impressive but Begiristain, Soriano and Ingla were not keen; there was something about his personality that did not fit. They would win, sure, but it was not enough simply to win.

Thanks PB. From that it seems they were impressed with his interview but something about Jose's personality didn't sit right, Petrusha suggested that they only passed on him because they wanted to recruit from within. If Lowe is to be believed then that's not quite the case.
 
Rolee said:
Prestwich_Blue said:
Rolee said:
From what I've read it appears the opposite is the case in relation to how Txixi views Jose. Could you point me in the direction of where these commentators express that view? Thanks in advance.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/oct/28/pep-guardiola-manchester-city

Two paragraphs from the article (by Sid Lowe) which are relevant.

Yet Barcelona had begun a slide under Rijkaard and even before the 2007-08 season was finished Begiristain had determined a change was needed, even as some on the board resisted. The decision may even have come late, but it did finally come. Begiristain said Rijkaard had lost control of the dressing room.

Begiristain had travelled to Lisbon with two directors, Marc Ingla and Ferran Soriano, to see Mourinho. The presentation was impressive but Begiristain, Soriano and Ingla were not keen; there was something about his personality that did not fit. They would win, sure, but it was not enough simply to win.

Thanks PB. From that it seems they were impressed with his interview but something about Jose's personality didn't sit right, Petrusha suggested that they only passed on him because they wanted to recruit from within. If Lowe is to be believed then that's not quite the case.
It's easy to look for ways to turn someone else down if you've got a preferred candidate.
 
petrusha said:
Rolee said:
From what I've read it appears the opposite is the case in relation to how Txixi views Jose. Could you point me in the direction of where these commentators express that view? Thanks in advance.

Graham Hunter, author of the definitive account of the modern Barcelona (details here: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Barca-Making-Greatest-Team-World/dp/0956497152/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361446542&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Barca-Making-Gr ... 542&sr=8-1</a>) has written:

Mourinho had prepared what Ingla and Begiristain remember to be a brilliant power-point demonstration. His self-belief was clearly intact; he understood intimately the challenges ahead of Barça’s next coach, had deduced from a distance what was going wrong and had clear views on the best way out of the mess they were in. In normal circumstances the material, and the man, on show would have been so dazzling, so convincing that the argument would have become whether to give him the job there and then.

...

Ingla confirms: “There was one moment when I said to him, ‘José, the problem we have with you is that you push the media too much. There is too much aggression. The coach is the image of the club.

...

Ingla and Begiristain had an ace up their sleeve. The job was theirs to give and they felt no desperation about filling the post – largely because they already suspected that Guardiola was the man to rescue Barcelona.

...

Begiristain, too, left Portugal racked with concerns.

The director of football was now convinced that Barça would win trophies if Mourinho was appointed three-and-a-half months down the line, in June 2008. Like Ingla, however, he’d found the Special One wanting.

The director of football was now convinced that Barça would win trophies if Mourinho was appointed three-and-a-half months down the line, in June 2008.

Begiristain couldn’t imagine Mourinho understanding that the club didn’t want or need outbursts in the media two or three times a week. What’s more, the Basque felt that the Barça he was trying to build valued respect for the opponent, honour in defeat, dignity and other fragile concepts more highly than Mourinho did at that time, or perhaps ever would. Begiristain, on the flight back to El Prat airport, knew that they were about to play a percentage game.

He was 100% sure, and remains so to this day, that Barça would have trained well, played decent, if pragmatic, football and won trophies.

...

Ferran Soriano [the Barcelona General Manager] describes the mood of the expeditionary force when Ingla and Begiristain returned from Portugal. “Txiki and Marc thought that Mourinho was very well prepared,” he recalls. “He had a PowerPoint display on how he would manage everything. They spent three hours with him and both came away thinking Mourinho was not our guy. Marc said that Mourinho spoke 90% of the time and didn’t listen. He said: ‘I just don’t like him.’

“Txiki was a bit more rational. He said: ‘Mourinho would do well, but the number of fires he would cause internally, and with the media, are not worth it.’"

In other words, Txiki recognises that Mourinho is a brilliant coach who'll win things. Mourinho was the wrong fit for Barcelona at the time. That doesn't mean that he'll be the wrong fit for City now, and if that's the only issue with him in terms of managing us at this stage, it won't be Txiki's call to make. It will be Mansour, guided by Khaldoon and Simon Pearce.

Of course, they'll ask for Txiki's input on the football aspects of the decision and be guided by that. But the image and how Mourinho will reflect on Abu Dhabi? No, that decision will be made by people above Ferran and Txiki.

Thank you.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
BooksReject said:
Im a big Mancini supporter, and whilst he is still our Manager I will be right behind him. I will never forget that he was our Manager when I had my most emotional moment in my long life as a City supporter, and Aguero is right up there too.

But this is modern football, and we need to be realists, not idealists. It's a possibility that Ferguson wouldn't have lasted at scum had his early record there been in the modern age.

Stability is almost always a good thing in football, but look at Arsenal.

Ideally, I would love Bobby to manage us to another title, then another, a Champions League win, then another, I love the man, but realistically I am now beginning to understand that sustained success at this level may just be a step too far for him.

Realistically it would seem, according to Tolm, that Jose is on his way, and a big clearout will probably see Aguero go too. Realistically, in the long run, all this will be beneficial to City as we all want the League, to win the Champions League, and to be THE dominant force in English football and compete with the very best in Europe.

As a Mancini admirer, I feel sad to my stomach. As a realist, I admit to flutterings of excitement.


Why feel sad, mate?

Khaldoon and the new guys are well within their power to say, 'thanks, Jose, but no thanks'.

Nobody has a scooby how this will play out. Taking Jose's agent approaches to one side, it certainly appears to suggest Mancini is under pressure.

Maybe Mourinho's people, like most, thought Pep was a shoe-in here because who was now in charge?


I meant I would be sad to see him leave. I do like him, but as I said, maybe we need to move on to get to the promised land of being competitive in Europe.

Looks like I may be a little premature - will be a lot of smoke and mirrors before the deal is sealed, and that's just on here!
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
NipHolmes said:
Just putting this out there.

Mancini loves Balotelli as we know. Imo Mancini had Mario sold out of his hands. Mourinho is not a fan of Balotelli and called him unmanageable.

Make of it what you will.

-- Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:34 am --

OB1 said:
Give over, the man who owns a business is always entitled to take the final decision on a major business issue.

Of course he is.

I just don't think he'd meddle. The Barca two have a proven track record, he employed them because he trusts their judgement. If they say no and give good reasoning then I'd expect HRH and his wing man Khaldoon to respect that.


A plausible theory, mate, but doesn't fit in with the actual timeline of the last few days.

As Gelson states, it would also be foolish to dismiss Chelsea or Paris. IMO, major building jobs in themselves.

And with the greatest respect, Manchester simply cannot compete on most levels, God's own club, aside.
Paris is a one horse town but London isn't ;-)
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
As Gelson states, it would also be foolish to dismiss Chelsea or Paris. IMO, major building jobs in themselves.

And with the greatest respect, Manchester simply cannot compete on most levels, God's own club, aside.

Culturally Manchester cannot compete with Paris and Londres but in football terms, the EPL surely offers more than Ligue 1?

They say that you should never go back and that is usually - but not always - good advice when it comes to jobs. Aside from all the attractions we can attribute to the project, City would be a new challenge and have never won the UCL...<br /><br />-- Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:58 am --<br /><br />
Gelsons Dad said:
Paris is a one horse town but London isn't ;-)


Ha, ah. If he can't have the jod at the Swamp, that every believes he would like, what better way to show them what they missed than to pitch up and add to the noise.
 
The problem is that Mou is without doubt a fantastic manager but also a tosser.

The big question is am I or you prepared for him to act like that as the trophies rack up?

In the past I've always said no but the way the media act with us would it be any worse with him here?

I've been pro Bob since day one and was hoping we'd get him before Fergie's Little Helper left but I do think Bob has gone as far as he can do with us.

It's been a fantastic ride and I've seen us do/win things I never thought I'd ever see but sometimes it's time to say goodbye.
 
OB1 said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
As Gelson states, it would also be foolish to dismiss Chelsea or Paris. IMO, major building jobs in themselves.

And with the greatest respect, Manchester simply cannot compete on most levels, God's own club, aside.

Culturally Manchester cannot compete with Paris and Londres but in football terms, the EPL surely offers more than Ligue 1?

They say that you should never go back and that is usually - but not always - good advice when it comes to jobs. Aside from all the attractions we can attribute to the project, City would be a new challenge and have never won the UCL...

I've lived in both London and Paris so I do appreciate the advantages they have over Manchester.

Equally, as you say, Mourinho is a football man and you can make a good case for this being a better for him than other possible choices in football terms. That may not hold sway with him in the end, but it gives us a shot.
 
Let's put things into perspective.

Jose has stated his next job will be in England.

Bobby Charlton scotched the chances of his succeededing Fergie.
Chelsea offer a great position but have an owner who's sacked him. Maybe water under the bridge but Chelsea offer nothing new. They've won the CL that was so elusive to them.

City offer something new and very likely the best project in club football. Winning the Ligue1 with PSG is like winning a 100m race against a cripple. Bar Europe I see no point in it. Maybe 10 years time it'll be a goo league but not now. Germany would have a much bigger pull anyway.

His daughter has enrolled in a London Uni I believe so tha adds foundation to Chelsea links but I cannot see a proud man go to a place where he was sacked where the owner is still meddling and sacking people. Emiliano the DOF is a fucking idiot too.

Bias aside, City is a really, really good job. Great team, great owners, big funds and a promising academy project happening too.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
NipHolmes said:
Just putting this out there.

Mancini loves Balotelli as we know. Imo Mancini had Mario sold out of his hands. Mourinho is not a fan of Balotelli and called him unmanageable.

Make of it what you will.

-- Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:34 am --



Of course he is.

I just don't think he'd meddle. The Barca two have a proven track record, he employed them because he trusts their judgement. If they say no and give good reasoning then I'd expect HRH and his wing man Khaldoon to respect that.


A plausible theory, mate, but doesn't fit in with the actual timeline of the last few days.

As Gelson states, it would also be foolish to dismiss Chelsea or Paris. IMO, major building jobs in themselves.

And with the greatest respect, Manchester simply cannot compete on most levels, God's own club, aside.
Paris is a one horse town but London isn't ;-)


Will never happen ;)

Arsenal hate everything Jose stands for. Still too Etonian for the Special One - and over Wenger's dead body.
 
Interesting quotes re Ingla and co.

Mourinho's accessibility to the media in this country would be a lot less than in either Italy or Spain.

Ingla says three times a week, an hour a time?

No chance with that in England, how many fires can Jose actually start!

There's the main presser before a game, a post presser, but the arse isn't torn out of every thing from tactics to politics, every day.
 
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:
Fuck Mourinho.

Forza Mancini
C.V comparison mate. Night and day.

One chooses from Chelsea, PSG, City etc and the other Roma, Monaco and Russia.

Says it all.

Ones a very good coach, the others the best of his generation.



Let's not cloud judgement with sentiment
 
It's always been his destiny to come but will we accommodate him, that's the big question?

I've got things crossed but I'm far from excited, I've still got this niggle!
 
dancity19 said:
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:
Fuck Mourinho.

Forza Mancini


How very insightful.....

Yeah very insightful supporting our most successful manager in how many years.
Your love for Mourinho comes from where???
Keep taking the pills meanwhile I will support the club and the manager until he is deemed surplus to requirements should our owners/chairman decide to change.
 
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