LoveCity said:DD said:However, I really believe that anyone who thinks that Mancini is getting the best out of this squad is wrong.
People can sit either side of the fence or on it but if anyone believes he's getting the best out of our squad they are, as you said, absolutely wrong. He's definitely not a manager who will get every ounce of quality out of his team. We're not seeing the best of Aguero, Dzeko, Silva, Nasri, or Yaya for a start and I put the blame down to attacking tactics more than individuals (except, to an extent, Nasri... but even he could be playing much better). Defensive players seem to excel the most under Mancini but I always get the feeling our attackers are on some sort of invisible leash being held back and rarely playing to their full potential. We've seen said potential a few times like against Spurs and United but they have almost become folklore now when such high quality performances should be a common occurrence at a top club with top players. We rarely put on an exciting performance anymore unless we play total cannon fodder like Barnsley.
The same thing happened last season after the QPR game. He reverted to a more cautious formation and we turned a comfortable 5 point lead into an 8 point deficit.OB1 said:LoveCity said:DD said:However, I really believe that anyone who thinks that Mancini is getting the best out of this squad is wrong.
People can sit either side of the fence or on it but if anyone believes he's getting the best out of our squad they are, as you said, absolutely wrong. He's definitely not a manager who will get every ounce of quality out of his team. We're not seeing the best of Aguero, Dzeko, Silva, Nasri, or Yaya for a start and I put the blame down to attacking tactics more than individuals (except, to an extent, Nasri... but even he could be playing much better). Defensive players seem to excel the most under Mancini but I always get the feeling our attackers are on some sort of invisible leash being held back and rarely playing to their full potential. We've seen said potential a few times like against Spurs and United but they have almost become folklore now when such high quality performances should be a common occurrence at a top club with top players. We rarely put on an exciting performance anymore unless we play total cannon fodder like Barnsley.
I agree. I wonder if City getting caught on the counter a few times last season made Mancini revert to a more cautious approach?
Prestwich_Blue said:The same thing happened last season after the QPR game. He reverted to a more cautious formation and we turned a comfortable 5 point lead into an 8 point deficit.OB1 said:LoveCity said:People can sit either side of the fence or on it but if anyone believes he's getting the best out of our squad they are, as you said, absolutely wrong. He's definitely not a manager who will get every ounce of quality out of his team. We're not seeing the best of Aguero, Dzeko, Silva, Nasri, or Yaya for a start and I put the blame down to attacking tactics more than individuals (except, to an extent, Nasri... but even he could be playing much better). Defensive players seem to excel the most under Mancini but I always get the feeling our attackers are on some sort of invisible leash being held back and rarely playing to their full potential. We've seen said potential a few times like against Spurs and United but they have almost become folklore now when such high quality performances should be a common occurrence at a top club with top players. We rarely put on an exciting performance anymore unless we play total cannon fodder like Barnsley.
I agree. I wonder if City getting caught on the counter a few times last season made Mancini revert to a more cautious approach?
I still don't get that argument, referring back to last year. We won it, there's no debate.Klopp Flop said:Prestwich_Blue said:The same thing happened last season after the QPR game. He reverted to a more cautious formation and we turned a comfortable 5 point lead into an 8 point deficit.OB1 said:I agree. I wonder if City getting caught on the counter a few times last season made Mancini revert to a more cautious approach?
And we won the league
Skashion said:I don't buy this 'sum of its parts' nonsense. It's the same type of logic that led Didsbury Dave to imply Kenny Dalglish, Paul Lambert, Brendon Rogers and Alan Pardew would be preferable to Mancini; because they at least produced teams that perform better than the sum of their parts last season - though not so much this season. I'd rather have evidence that managers can win trophies with their parts. Mancini's won trophies with four clubs so he's done that.
Yes, there's been some regression this year, but there's been regression in our squad too. Last season, Balotelli and Johnson scored 19 goals and 3 assists between them in the league. They haven't been replaced as Sinclair has 0 goals and 0 assists. Meanwhile, the rags have outspent us and bought Van Persie, which undoubtedly strengthened their squad, and did so early on in the window. Unfortunately, that has had the effect of regression. You have to remember anyway, that progression isn't linear. We've had two and a half years of progress, which I have every expectation will resume next season if Mancini is given the chance. You have your good years and your bad years. Have the rags been in constant decline since the treble? Well, no. They've had decline years in which they won nothing, including a trophyless season last year, and including a period where they went without a title for three years on the bounce, and they've had progression years, where they won the title consecutively and added another Champions League. This is a decline year for us, but I'm confident we can bounce back. A poor season, in which we might still win an FA Cup, is not sufficient reason to warrant sacking him when he's had his squad weakened. He deserves another season in which Mancini hasn't been pissed about like he was last summer and this January. Let him make a few marquee signings i.e. the players we were supposedly going for last summer, and failed to sign, and don't make those signings in the last week of the window so he doesn't have pre-season to find out how he can best utilise those players. If he still fails to make progress then, alright, he's got to go.
It sums it up for me too. There shouldn't me limitless reserves of goodwill towards him, but he surely hasn't used up all the goodwill he deserves for all that has gone before.M18CTID said:Skashion said:I don't buy this 'sum of its parts' nonsense. It's the same type of logic that led Didsbury Dave to imply Kenny Dalglish, Paul Lambert, Brendon Rogers and Alan Pardew would be preferable to Mancini; because they at least produced teams that perform better than the sum of their parts last season - though not so much this season. I'd rather have evidence that managers can win trophies with their parts. Mancini's won trophies with four clubs so he's done that.
Yes, there's been some regression this year, but there's been regression in our squad too. Last season, Balotelli and Johnson scored 19 goals and 3 assists between them in the league. They haven't been replaced as Sinclair has 0 goals and 0 assists. Meanwhile, the rags have outspent us and bought Van Persie, which undoubtedly strengthened their squad, and did so early on in the window. Unfortunately, that has had the effect of regression. You have to remember anyway, that progression isn't linear. We've had two and a half years of progress, which I have every expectation will resume next season if Mancini is given the chance. You have your good years and your bad years. Have the rags been in constant decline since the treble? Well, no. They've had decline years in which they won nothing, including a trophyless season last year, and including a period where they went without a title for three years on the bounce, and they've had progression years, where they won the title consecutively and added another Champions League. This is a decline year for us, but I'm confident we can bounce back. A poor season, in which we might still win an FA Cup, is not sufficient reason to warrant sacking him when he's had his squad weakened. He deserves another season in which Mancini hasn't been pissed about like he was last summer and this January. Let him make a few marquee signings i.e. the players we were supposedly going for last summer, and failed to sign, and don't make those signings in the last week of the window so he doesn't have pre-season to find out how he can best utilise those players. If he still fails to make progress then, alright, he's got to go.
That pretty much sums up my feelings. By winning the FA Cup 2 years ago and the league last season, IMO Mancini has earned himself some leeway. One season of regression against two and half years of progression equals credit in the bank for me. I said on another thread at the weekend that if we're going to start sacking managers every time we take a backward step then we'll be going through as many managers as Chelsea.
So unless we go into complete meltdown and finish outside the Champions League places, for me Mancini deserves another season to address this seasons' problems.
gordondaviesmoustache said:I would never question the intelligence of someone for arriving, when founded in logic, at a different conclusion than me. I can accept the views of people who want Mancini gone, even if I don't agree with them.DD said:gordondaviesmoustache said:You frequently question the intelligence of those that disagree with you.
A sure sign of insecurity about your own.
I have no insecurity at all. I do despair about the lack of intelligence of our own supporters though; and if you can't see what he is doing to us, you deserve to see every last one of United's undoubted run of title successes over the next few years. He's fucked up our glorious chance and you are going to suffer the consequences like I will. I'm just really happy for you that you are pleased to accept it, because I'm not.
It is supremely arrogant to do such a thing and suggests a deep level of insecurity in spite of your claims to the contrary.
Telling a blue that he deserves "to see every last one of United's undoubted run of title successes over the next few years" just because he has arrived at a different conclusion than you, says a great deal about your regard for City fans and your disposition towards people in general.
Excellent analysisSkashion said:I don't buy this 'sum of its parts' nonsense. It's the same type of logic that led Didsbury Dave to imply Kenny Dalglish, Paul Lambert, Brendon Rogers and Alan Pardew would be preferable to Mancini; because they at least produced teams that perform better than the sum of their parts last season - though not so much this season. I'd rather have evidence that managers can win trophies with their parts. Mancini's won trophies with four clubs so he's done that.
Yes, there's been some regression this year, but there's been regression in our squad too. Last season, Balotelli and Johnson scored 19 goals and 3 assists between them in the league. They haven't been replaced as Sinclair has 0 goals and 0 assists. Meanwhile, the rags have outspent us and bought Van Persie, which undoubtedly strengthened their squad, and did so early on in the window. Unfortunately, that has had the effect of regression. You have to remember anyway, that progression isn't linear. We've had two and a half years of progress, which I have every expectation will resume next season if Mancini is given the chance. You have your good years and your bad years. Have the rags been in constant decline since the treble? Well, no. They've had decline years in which they won nothing, including a trophyless season last year, and including a period where they went without a title for three years on the bounce, and they've had progression years, where they won the title consecutively and added another Champions League. This is a decline year for us, but I'm confident we can bounce back. A poor season, in which we might still win an FA Cup, is not sufficient reason to warrant sacking him when he's had his squad weakened. He deserves another season in which Mancini hasn't been pissed about like he was last summer and this January. Let him make a few marquee signings i.e. the players we were supposedly going for last summer, and failed to sign, and don't make those signings in the last week of the window so he doesn't have pre-season to find out how he can best utilise those players. If he still fails to make progress then, alright, he's got to go.
He can say what he wants about me, I'm more than capable of dealing with the likes of him. He doesn't seem to have a lot of love in his heart is the kindest thing I can think to say.M18CTID said:gordondaviesmoustache said:I would never question the intelligence of someone for arriving, when founded in logic, at a different conclusion than me. I can accept the views of people who want Mancini gone, even if I don't agree with them.DD said:I have no insecurity at all. I do despair about the lack of intelligence of our own supporters though; and if you can't see what he is doing to us, you deserve to see every last one of United's undoubted run of title successes over the next few years. He's fucked up our glorious chance and you are going to suffer the consequences like I will. I'm just really happy for you that you are pleased to accept it, because I'm not.
It is supremely arrogant to do such a thing and suggests a deep level of insecurity in spite of your claims to the contrary.
Telling a blue that he deserves "to see every last one of United's undoubted run of title successes over the next few years" just because he has arrived at a different conclusion than you, says a great deal about your regard for City fans and your disposition towards people in general.
Ignore him GDM. He's always been a moaning twat who ridicules those with a different opinion to his on our manager. He was at it way back in the Talkin' City days with anyone who dared stick up for Keegan.