Mancini

[moomba]

We should remember that Nasri has pretty much displayed the same problems for 20 months now. I can't recall much criticism of him before the derby match.

Maybe even with his "one size fits all approach to management" has tried other ways to motivate a performance out of him, and is only now resorting to the hard line.

 

[Anonymous]

Buy a player. Isn't the fit you thought it would be. Sell him.

Whats the problem?

The problem is the amount of time and work you put into helping them and encouraging them to fit. As you point out Mancini doesn't do that. You're either self motivated or not. That's clearly a problem when you buy expensive players who aren't self motivated. Mancini's job is to manage. The fact you are so blase at his lack of management is, honestly, a bit odd.

Taggart bought Berbatov. Berbs couldn't handle the environment. Got ignored in his last season and didn't even make the bench for the CL final. Then got sold with a few digs at Taggart on the way out.

Why didn't it work? Had the talent but not the character.

It happens. Nani is going the same way. Anderson is still there and still not making it. Character. Sell early on on waste a few years instilling a character that is not there. Take your pick.

Berbatov was at United for 4 seasons and played regularly scoring shit loads of goals for his first three. Nani and Anderson have been there 6 seasons. The time has been spent to try and get the best out of them and the most value for the club out of them.

Players Mancini has bought that were sold

Boateng
AJ
Mario

Any I have missed? Hardly a massive turnover and monies largely recouped. Seen worse buying and selling records.

What you're conveniently ignoring is the mooted fire sale this summer where the players who Mancini believes doesn't have the right mentality, should be moved on. As I said, Balo's gone, add Nasri and Dzeko to that list. Players who've been at the club 18 months/2 seasons.

I'm finding your take on this very very odd. Almost as if you're wilfully ignoring what's best for the club in order to justify Mancini's own shortcomings as a man and a manager.

 

[NipHolmes]

So I ask again. You are the owner you have the cash. Which set of players would you aim to sign for your club?

And yes you can call me Gary

Question for you ... you think the owners are going to want a manager who demands a player, then once signed says "he's not got the right mentality - sell him" - or one who demands a player, then if the mentality isn't right, works with him to get the best out of him ?

Buy a player. Isn't the fit you thought it would be. Sell him.

Whats the problem?

Taggart bought Berbatov. Berbs couldn't handle the environment. Got ignored in his last season and didn't even make the bench for the CL final. Then got sold with a few digs at Taggart on the way out.

Why didn't it work? Had the talent but not the character.

It happens. Nani is going the same way. Anderson is still there and still not making it. Character. Sell early on on waste a few years instilling a character that is not there. Take your pick.

-- Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:41 pm --

but after 2 years, cut your losses

Sure you can cut your losses. But, and lets for arguments sake put Dzeko in the same box as Balo and Nasri. Then you have three players the manager insisted on signing at great cost to the owners. Kowalski's point was that the owners would prefer mentally tough players who are self motivated. None of those three are and all three were signed by Mancini. Now because Mancini can't get the best out of them due in no small part to his one size fits all approach to management, the owners should sell up.

So the question then becomes, how many players can he sign and discard before he becomes part of the problem rather than part of the solution?

Players Mancini has bought that were sold

Boateng
AJ
Mario

Any I have missed? Hardly a massive turnover and monies largely recouped. Seen worse buying and selling records.

Berbatov won Golden Boot (tie with our Carlitos) and only failed there due to style fo play.

Anderson has struggled with wieght, fitness and injuries. He is also a failed converted CM who prospered at Porto and Brazil where he played off the striker. I've said this for years. Piss can ruined the lad. Anderson at Porto was as good as any prospect from Brazil at the time of buying.

Boateng was replaced by Savic, you missed that cracker out.

Dzeko and Nasri haven't been worth their high wages and have been bought without a plan of them fitting into the side and our team either doesn't need them or they don't fit style of play. Both will be sold at a loss and add Kolarov to the list too. No way will we get £15mill for him, not unless someone fancies wasting money.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Hallelujah and the Saints be praised!

Ok next question.

And what pray is the problem with that?

Or - What is better? A squad full of talented, self motivated, self reliant players or a squad full of talented players who need their arses wiping every 5 minutes?

Now both are at opposite ends of the spectrum but if you were an owner with the cash which players would you invest in?

Utopian nonsense. The kind of thing Garry Cook probably took to Abu Dhabi on a Powerpoint presentation in 2010.

Footballers are human beings. You can pay as much lip service as you want to "only signing players with the right mentality" but it doesn't work like that. For a start, if Mancini wants this kind of "tough mentality" player, then what's he doing piling the pressure on the board to sign Nasri? Mancini did this, and Nasri himself has admitted he isn't that kind of player. So there's a problem there straight away.

Gary Cook's "we only sign winners!" presentation sounds great on the whiteboard of the Abu Dhabi royal palace but falls flat when Mancini's spewing his negativity about Joe Hart or Jolean Lescott on some wet Wednesday when we've flopped in Europe.

So I ask again. You are the owner you have the cash. Which set of players would you aim to sign for your club?

And yes you can call me Gary

It's simple. You aim to get the players with the strongest "mentality" you can. As City do.

But you recognise that the idea of a squad full of players who don't need postive management is an impossible dream, and you make sure they are managed accordingly.

 

[br62]

If Mancini had a problem with the effort Nasri puts in he should have dealt with it in house rather than tell the papers. Just my opinion.

Maybe he would if these same players didn't speak to the media first!

I thought Nasri was responding to Mancini's comments or have I missed something here?

I agree that these matters should be kept in-house.....it's bad for the club to have these spats in the public eye....and we most probably lose another 5 million on Nasri's eventual transfer fee due to Mancini's comment.

 

[OB1]

So I ask again. You are the owner you have the cash. Which set of players would you aim to sign for your club?

And yes you can call me Gary

Question for you ... you think the owners are going to want a manager who demands a player, then once signed says "he's not got the right mentality - sell him" - or one who demands a player, then if the mentality isn't right, works with him to get the best out of him ?

Bingo.

Not got time for much debating today but it seems to me Roberto has some severe limitations when it comes to man-management. His approach as set out by Bob K is, frankly, prehistoric. My opinion is that we need a manager whose people skills are as sophisticated as his technical / tactical skills. Someone as well rounded as perhaps the template for the players he needs to make his approach work. Maybe the Inners etc can see the irony in that one.

Lunch over.

Gotta go.

 

[BobKowalski]

The problem is the amount of time and work you put into helping them and encouraging them to fit. As you point out Mancini doesn't do that. You're either self motivated or not. That's clearly a problem when you buy expensive players who aren't self motivated. Mancini's job is to manage. The fact you are so blase at his lack of management is, honestly, a bit odd.

No. Mancini does no doubt put time and work into getting them to fit. As do the rest of the coaching staff. Especially if like Nasri you have the talent. But I think Mancini comes to a conclusion pretty quickly and thereafter you are on borrowed time. At some point with Mancini you have to man up. If you don't well then there is the door. It is not about lack of management. Mancini does manage. Its just that you don't like the way he does it whereas I am comfortable with it. Always have been.

Berbatov was at United for 4 seasons and played regularly scoring shit loads of goals for his first three. Nani and Anderson have been there 6 seasons. The time has been spent to try and get the best out of them and the most value for the club out of them.

Dzeko plays regularly and scores shit loads of goals. So bleeding what? Berbs did not fit into the MU culture under Taggart and was ushered out the door. Nani is running his contract down and Andersen is still trapped in a pie shop somewhere. Cracking value.

What you're conveniently ignoring is the mooted fire sale this summer where the players who Mancini believes doesn't have the right mentality, should be moved on. As I said, Balo's gone, add Nasri and Dzeko to that list. Players who've been at the club 18 months/2 seasons.

Well yes. I am ignoring things that have not yet happened. This thread often wanders into its own mystical wonderland without me adding to it. I will happily discuss future events when and if they come to pass.

I'm finding your take on this very very odd. Almost as if you're wilfully ignoring what's best for the club in order to justify Mancini's own shortcomings as a man and a manager.

Billy. Your take on what is best for the club starts and ends with Mancini being a c**t who needs sacking off like...well about 2 years ago. Since in that 2 years we haven't done too badly I am comfortable with my own take on things.

 

[NipHolmes]

Maybe he would if these same players didn't speak to the media first!

I thought Nasri was responding to Mancini's comments or have I missed something here?

I agree that these matters should be kept in-house.....it's bad for the club to have these spats in the public eye....and we most probably lose another 5 million on Nasri's eventual transfer fee due to Mancini's comment.

Mancini helped the club out loads with his stance on Adebayor and Bellamy too :/

 

[The Future's Blue]

The big question here is why does Nasri feel comfortable enough to have this swipe?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2302596/Samir-Nasri-calls-Manchester-City-boss-Roberto-Mancini-liar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -liar.html</a>

Tick tock (but on which one?)

Honest question mate. Are you affiliated to the Mail in some way?

No. I think the Mail is a newspaper for wankers.

Shall we go with The Independant?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/nasri-wenger-is-best-coach-8556227.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 56227.html</a>

or The Telegraph?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9965885/Manchester-City-midfielder-Samir-Nasri-hits-out-at-manager-Roberto-Mancinis-punch-remark.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... emark.html</a>

Doesn't really matter, the story's consistent.

I'm hoping it's Nasri talking in the full knowledge Mancini is history, but given the way Nasri has looked for ways out of the club already, it could just be his resignation letter. Whilst I welcome either or both pieces of news, I regret this kind of bad feeling in the dressing room before these two enormous games.

No need to go all defensive pal, it was a honest question. It might just have been down to the headline then.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

No. Mancini does no doubt put time and work into getting them to fit. As do the rest of the coaching staff. Especially if like Nasri you have the talent. But I think Mancini comes to a conclusion pretty quickly and thereafter you are on borrowed time. At some point with Mancini you have to man up. If you don't well then there is the door. It is not about lack of management. Mancini does manage. Its just that you don't like the way he does it whereas I am comfortable with it. Always have been.

How can you put time and effort into making someone fit in, if you also come to a conclusion "pretty quickly" about whether a player is for you or not? Seems a contradiction to me. You say Mancini manages, but then you also have said repeatedly that Mancini doesn't give a shit about you as a person, you either fit into his way or you're dead to him. That's not management in my world, and my world includes multi millionaire young adults who get told on a daily basis their shit doesn't stink and at times need serious motivation.

Dzeko plays regularly and scores shit loads of goals. So bleeding what? Berbs did not fit into the MU culture under Taggart and was ushered out the door. Nani is running his contract down and Andersen is still trapped in a pie shop somewhere. Cracking value.

You brought the United players up as examples of players who lack character, I pointed out that United persevered with them much longer than Mancini seemingly would.

Well yes. I am ignoring things that have not yet happened. This thread often wanders into its own mystical wonderland without me adding to it. I will happily discuss future events when and if they come to pass.

Lets talk about Balotelli. He's gone. He needed managing on some level off the pitch as well as on it. He came with a questionable character. He was flogged two years later. Do you think a different manager could've gotten more out of him? Did Mancini handle him correctly this season before he left ?

Like I said, you're view I find very very odd and seemingly at odds with what is best for the club whilst singularly holding up Mancini's dogmatic and outdated methods as being just fine and dandy.