Mancini

[The Fat el Hombre]

We're in a similar position now as we were last season, so no doubt Mancini is talking to other clubs

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Actually I think Mancini's strength lies in building teams that have won nothing for years rather than taking over the finished article and continuing or improving on success so Roma with pot of cash to spend would be ideal for him.

There would be no shortage of suiters for his particular talent but I don't think a Real Madrid type job would suit him or the club. But a big club that is down on its luck and not won in years with a bit of cash to spend? Mancini's your guy.

An unruly child often needs tough love ... but once he grows into a young adult he may need a more subtle type of parenting.

Yes there are different skills involved. Mancini is ideally suited to one aspect and not the other. Equally people can learn and adapt. The mistake we make is that we assume managers and coaches don't learn or evolve. Taggert certainly has evolved his management style with age and experience and Mancini may do so as well.

Of course Mancini may prefer just being Mancini in which case he has a specific talent which is highly marketable as demonstrated by his time at Inter and City.

This is slightly glib and simplistic but Mancini seems to work best when there is turmoil and conflict swirling round him - its just a question of how much shelf life there is in such an approach and whether he is as effective when all is quiet and serene. Going by this season possible not.

Mancini is a hard guy to work out though. His man management is on the face of it appalling yet it seems to work. Genuinely I think a lot of people have a hard time figuring him out which leads to a lot of divided opinion.

Not a bad take.

He's stubborn and single-minded, that's probably his biggest personality trait. You've all watched the qpr game repeatedly. It's interesting what souness says after the game when asked about his time working with Mancini. I cant remember word for word but its more or less 'you couldn't tell him anything. Nothing. Even as a young lad, no matter what he was told and who by, he knew better'. That's why he gets results with clubs going through rapid change: he's not scared to cut sacred trees down, or to stare people down who have ideas he believes are above their station. We saw it with half a dozen of our players on his first twelve months, and ultimately that got results. He is full of himself and is able to say 'fuck you' to anyone who stands in his way whilst he instills a hard, don't settle for second beat, culture. He also seems to understand that the best players to include in his culture are self motivated, bright ones. Like hart, kompany, de Jong, clichy, dzeko, toure etc.

Tactically he's well researched and in tune with modern thinking. But this is where his weaknesses start, I remember during his first home game, I think it was stoke. He changed formation after 30 minutes because our midfield was getting overrun and it worked a treat. I was delighted, I thought 'we've got a real manager here'. But then within a few games he had us as a 4411 with petrov on the right and swp on the left. Inverted wingers is of course an extremely effective formation and has been fashionable for the last few years. But it only works when you have players like Ribery, Robinho, even Adam Johnson, who can come inside with the ball at their feet. Neither of those two can; their games are about going outside people. In doing this he neutered those players and neutered our cutting edge. It's a mistake he makes repeatedly; putting the horse before the cart: his obsession with making the 352 work early this season was based on his desire to use a modern system and it fell down on his seeming inability to comprehend that if your players don't fit a formation, it will fail, no matter what the textbook says.

I think this weakness, a drive to ask things of players which they can't deliver, is a big one. Of course it's a cliche to say he is not a good people person but I think it's true. Whilst you can probably trust some players to motivate themselves, and even to want to prove you wrong if you've hammered them, you cannot expect all of your squad to respond to this. Even if your buying policy reflects this style, you'll always have players who need confidence through support.

I think these strengths and weaknesses , whilst of course not giving the whole picture, go some way toward explaining his previous domestic success, his European failure and also our regression this this season. European football is just football but you are playing good teams with exceptional managers. I think Mancini isn't good enough technically to get the right results in these games.

That's why I think he's a man for a short term hit, a good manager to turn a ship around. But once it's turned I think his weaknesses come to the fore as we've seen at city and his last job. Being pig headed and aloof doesn't work long term with top level players. It alienates them and eventually they start to lose respect and just think you're not on their side.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

i was more worried he'd get the pope gig.

Isn't the new guy mates with Zab, Serg and Carlos, anyway! We'll prob be getting more Masses now than the Rags ever had!

 

[lionheart]

If we don't hang on to Roberto, he could do a good job at the Swamp when Whiskey Nose steps down.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

An unruly child often needs tough love ... but once he grows into a young adult he may need a more subtle type of parenting.

Yes there are different skills involved. Mancini is ideally suited to one aspect and not the other. Equally people can learn and adapt. The mistake we make is that we assume managers and coaches don't learn or evolve. Taggert certainly has evolved his management style with age and experience and Mancini may do so as well.

Of course Mancini may prefer just being Mancini in which case he has a specific talent which is highly marketable as demonstrated by his time at Inter and City.

This is slightly glib and simplistic but Mancini seems to work best when there is turmoil and conflict swirling round him - its just a question of how much shelf life there is in such an approach and whether he is as effective when all is quiet and serene. Going by this season possible not.

Mancini is a hard guy to work out though. His man management is on the face of it appalling yet it seems to work. Genuinely I think a lot of people have a hard time figuring him out which leads to a lot of divided opinion.

Not a bad take.

He's stubborn and single-minded, that's probably his biggest personality trait. You've all watched the qpr game repeatedly. It's interesting what souness says after the game when asked about his time working with Mancini. I cant remember word for word but its more or less 'you couldn't tell him anything. Nothing. Even as a young lad, no matter what he was told and who by, he knew better'. That's why he gets results with clubs going through rapid change: he's not scared to cut sacred trees down, or to stare people down who have ideas he believes are above their station. We saw it with half a dozen of our players on his first twelve months, and ultimately that got results. He is full of himself and is able to say 'fuck you' to anyone who stands in his way whilst he instills a hard, don't settle for second beat, culture. He also seems to understand that the best players to include in his culture are self motivated, bright ones. Like hart, kompany, de Jong, clichy, dzeko, toure etc.

Tactically he's well researched and in tune with modern thinking. But this is where his weaknesses start, I remember during his first home game, I think it was stoke. He changed formation after 30 minutes because our midfield was getting overrun and it worked a treat. I was delighted, I thought 'we've got a real manager here'. But then within a few games he had us as a 4411 with petrov on the right and swp on the left. Inverted wingers is of course an extremely effective formation and has been fashionable for the last few years. But it only works when you have players like Ribery, Robinho, even Adam Johnson, who can come inside with the ball at their feet. Neither of those two can; their games are about going outside people. In doing this he neutered those players and neutered our cutting edge. It's a mistake he makes repeatedly; putting the horse before the cart: his obsession with making the 352 work early this season was based on his desire to use a modern system and it fell down on his seeming inability to comprehend that if your players don't fit a formation, it will fail, no matter what the textbook says.

I think this weakness, a drive to ask things of players which they can't deliver, is a big one. Of course it's a cliche to say he is not a good people person but I think it's true. Whilst you can probably trust some players to motivate themselves, and even to want to prove you wrong if you've hammered them, you cannot expect all of your squad to respond to this. Even if your buying policy reflects this style, you'll always have players who need confidence through support.

I think these strengths and weaknesses , whilst of course not giving the whole picture, go some way toward explaining his previous domestic success, his European failure and also our regression this this season. European football is just football but you are playing good teams with exceptional managers. I think Mancini isn't good enough technically to get the right results in these games.

That's why I think he's a man for a short term hit, a good manager to turn a ship around. But once it's turned I think his weaknesses come to the fore as we've seen at city and his last job. Being pig headed and aloof doesn't work long term with top level players. It alienates them and eventually they start to lose respect and just think you're not on their side.

Great post. Someone else offered an interesting opinion last week. They felt Mancini can't let go of actually playing the game still.

It clouds his judgement in the respect of his emotions. He sees footballers making errors and all he can equate it to is how he would have done it so much better.

You see him out there still playing in the training sessions, you very rarely have that with any managers these days, let alone, supposed top ones?

I think in his own head, having been such a great technical player, himself, he struggles to reconcile things which came so easy to him.

That manifests itself with his rush to judgement a little too quickly IMO.

Those frustrations mount simply because what he could do with his own feet, and what he now tries to implement from his own head, towards his teams, he can't achieve to the fullest?

 

[NQCitizen]

His next appointment will certainly be interesting,lets see if the 'big' clubs are indeed scrambling for his signature - i don't believe they will be.

I believe Real and PSG would take him into consideration. The other clubs have safe managers.

He only left Inter to be replaced by the greatest manager of his age. He's probably in the top 10 managers in Europe (especially taking into account his age) and half of those are in jobs they won't leave.

I don't understand how you can put him outside that bracket. Ferguson has only won two CLs in twenty years, he's hardly a failure.

 

[OB1]

I have no doubt that the fact that Mancini was such a talented and self-motivated players means that Bobby gets frustrated with his charges when they fail to do things that he thought he could have done. However, that's a frustration managers in all walks of life may face and is often one of the reasons that you are the boss and your staff aren't. However, as a manager, it's your job to learn to deal with the differing abilities of those that you work with. Is that sort of thing really beyond Mancini?

 

[kaz7]

we were led to believe he lost the dressing room,all the players hated him and each other and turned out it was all crap,they worked together and pulled off the impossible title win.we dont know if he is a cold fish behind the scenes or not.during the games he is demanding and rightly so,i think he and vinnie pushed them over the line v qpr,i think without his drive and belief they would have given up.i like it he demands the players work at their best,football is a results business.if he comes across as abrasive that's ok by me.I dont really care if the players like him or not.He tried to change the formation and tactics with players that weren't able to do it,the players he wanted are playing how he wants for other clubs and had he got them im sure his plan would be working great

 

[levets]

Mancini could pick a job much more easily than we could find a replacement.

I hate doing this to you, but you've sort of asked for it with some of your comments in the two posts you've made in this thread. Mancini could pick a job easily because he isn't fussy. Pay him enough and he'll come. The reality you so resolutely ignore is that Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Arsenal, United, PSG, and the rest of the world's elite clubs outside Italy won't touch Mancini with a mile long barge pole. His next job will be a step down from City.

Azzuri.....

 

[levets]

Forgive me, our co efficient has improved simply be being in european competition this season, however teams previously ranked below us have improved their co efficients significantly more than we have and therefore we are likely to be in pot 3. I take your point that it's possible to get a nasty group draw even whilst being in pot 1 & 2, but it does significantly improve your chances of getting an easier group if you're in a higher up pot.

We were 28th ranked team last season. We are currently 20th rated team. We might drop another couple of places before the end of the season. But our chances of pot 2 depend on the teams above us qualifying for next years comp or not.

That is very true, but pot 3 the likely one. Looking at the co ratings, once the draw has been made for next season we will drop to 26th so it will be pot 3 for the next 2 seasons at least. Thankfully the year after we only lose just over 3 points off our total so as long as we do ok to well, we will start to climb more significantly from then onwards. Unless our luck in the draws changes we are in for another tough 2 years in the Champs league

Pots mean nothing really. Napoli last year, Dortmund this year... Guess which pots?<br /><br />-- Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:25 pm --<br /><br />

Yes there are different skills involved. Mancini is ideally suited to one aspect and not the other. Equally people can learn and adapt. The mistake we make is that we assume managers and coaches don't learn or evolve. Taggert certainly has evolved his management style with age and experience and Mancini may do so as well.

Of course Mancini may prefer just being Mancini in which case he has a specific talent which is highly marketable as demonstrated by his time at Inter and City.

This is slightly glib and simplistic but Mancini seems to work best when there is turmoil and conflict swirling round him - its just a question of how much shelf life there is in such an approach and whether he is as effective when all is quiet and serene. Going by this season possible not.

Mancini is a hard guy to work out though. His man management is on the face of it appalling yet it seems to work. Genuinely I think a lot of people have a hard time figuring him out which leads to a lot of divided opinion.

Not a bad take.

He's stubborn and single-minded, that's probably his biggest personality trait. You've all watched the qpr game repeatedly. It's interesting what souness says after the game when asked about his time working with Mancini. I cant remember word for word but its more or less 'you couldn't tell him anything. Nothing. Even as a young lad, no matter what he was told and who by, he knew better'. That's why he gets results with clubs going through rapid change: he's not scared to cut sacred trees down, or to stare people down who have ideas he believes are above their station. We saw it with half a dozen of our players on his first twelve months, and ultimately that got results. He is full of himself and is able to say 'fuck you' to anyone who stands in his way whilst he instills a hard, don't settle for second beat, culture. He also seems to understand that the best players to include in his culture are self motivated, bright ones. Like hart, kompany, de Jong, clichy, dzeko, toure etc.

Tactically he's well researched and in tune with modern thinking. But this is where his weaknesses start, I remember during his first home game, I think it was stoke. He changed formation after 30 minutes because our midfield was getting overrun and it worked a treat. I was delighted, I thought 'we've got a real manager here'. But then within a few games he had us as a 4411 with petrov on the right and swp on the left. Inverted wingers is of course an extremely effective formation and has been fashionable for the last few years. But it only works when you have players like Ribery, Robinho, even Adam Johnson, who can come inside with the ball at their feet. Neither of those two can; their games are about going outside people. In doing this he neutered those players and neutered our cutting edge. It's a mistake he makes repeatedly; putting the horse before the cart: his obsession with making the 352 work early this season was based on his desire to use a modern system and it fell down on his seeming inability to comprehend that if your players don't fit a formation, it will fail, no matter what the textbook says.

I think this weakness, a drive to ask things of players which they can't deliver, is a big one. Of course it's a cliche to say he is not a good people person but I think it's true. Whilst you can probably trust some players to motivate themselves, and even to want to prove you wrong if you've hammered them, you cannot expect all of your squad to respond to this. Even if your buying policy reflects this style, you'll always have players who need confidence through support.

I think these strengths and weaknesses , whilst of course not giving the whole picture, go some way toward explaining his previous domestic success, his European failure and also our regression this this season. European football is just football but you are playing good teams with exceptional managers. I think Mancini isn't good enough technically to get the right results in these games.

That's why I think he's a man for a short term hit, a good manager to turn a ship around. But once it's turned I think his weaknesses come to the fore as we've seen at city and his last job. Being pig headed and aloof doesn't work long term with top level players. It alienates them and eventually they start to lose respect and just think you're not on their side.

Great post. Someone else offered an interesting opinion last week. They felt Mancini can't let go of actually playing the game still.

It clouds his judgement in the respect of his emotions. He sees footballers making errors and all he can equate it to is how he would have done it so much better.

You see him out there still playing in the training sessions, you very rarely have that with any managers these days, let alone, supposed top ones?

I think in his own head, having been such a great technical player, himself, he struggles to reconcile things which came so easy to him.

That manifests itself with his rush to judgement a little too quickly IMO.

Those frustrations mount simply because what he could do with his own feet, and what he now tries to implement from his own head, towards his teams, he can't achieve to the fullest?

Well put Tolmie... Glenn Hoddle had the same problem!