Mancini's future

[Sigh]

Why the fuck is Tevez still at the club after all the problems he's caused? Someone with sense would have seen this coming a mile off.

On Sunday June 19th, 2011, Didsbury Dave posted the following:

"Tevez is the best player we have had at this club in a generation. Anyone with city's interests at heart will be delighted if he stays."

As someone who had been arguing since my first Bluemoon posts that the sale of Tevez was vital to our development as a team and as someone who has been a City supporter for 60 years, I found this post offensive.

 

[Scooby Blue]

This is getting surreal now....I feel like Alice falling down a rabbit hole in Wonderland....or maybe wondering in on some crazy tea party.

I have this image of people repeating "Tevez is a twat...Tevez is a twat ...Tevez is a twat..." until they are out of breath.
Then when someone else starts talking...they put their fingers in their ears and say something like "La La La...I can't hear you....La La La" like a 4 year old child might do.
Then when they see that the other person's lips have stopped moving...they can take up the "Tevez is a twat" chant again.

My posts speak for themselves:
They may be sometimes longwinded (because I am trying to get to the bottom of what has happened in some detail) but they do not need simplistic labelling as pro-Tevez or anti-mancini.

It's actually quite exciting...I've never been part of a "cabal" before, but I think I'm getting close to "honorary" membership.
Do we have secret meetings and a secret handshake ?
I can't wait....let me know if I need to bring any booze.

I do not "idolise" Tevez in any shape or form ...nor do I hate Mancini.
My sole interest is the fortunes of MCFC...and whether the events of this week could have been handled better.
All I can see is a media SH*T storm and a key playing asset whose value it will be increasingly difficult to realise in the transfer market.
If I'm the owner of the club...I'm entitled to investigate thoroughly what has gone on...without a premature "rush to judgement"...and posters making valid points or raising valid questions should be extended the same courtesy.

It's not your job to get to the bottom of anything though is it.

I'm not sure you + I agree on the purpose of a "forum" (def: place to exchange ideas or something like that)

It's not my job to pick the team, but I've posted on who I think ought to play.
It's not my job to sign players, but I've posted on who I think we ought to sign.
It's not my job to set ticket prices, but I've posted on whether they are too high or not.

please let me know which aspects of goings on at the club... I am allowed to comment on.

 

[BobKowalski]

Re: Re: Re: Mancini's future

Everyone thought OJ Simpson was guilty of murdering his wife. Apart from the jury who actually had to make the decision. Funny that.

Anyone with a shred of intelligence who tries to make the point that it's not necessarily black and white gets shouted down by people who can't see beyond the ends of their noses. Funny that.

Everyone still thinks OJ murdered his wife

But no its not black and white nothing ever is. And all this is not just about Tuesday and whether it was about refusing to warm up or refusing to come on or both or first refusing then 'reluctantly' getting up and then sitting down.

This is about Tevez not being the man. Not being Captain and not being top dog. We all saw the half hearted warm ups prior to coming on already this season. The less than stellar performances when he did come on and we all know why because it happened at manu. Tevez as main man will do the business because it feeds his ego. Tevez relegated to squad player was not as effective at manu and was never going to be effective here. Tevez wants preferential treatment and doesn't want to be constrained by the norms that govern other players.

Instead of being eager to help the team in Munich or anywhere for that matter his first instinct is to feel sorry for himself. How the way he is being treated is unfair as he is the man and last seasons top scorer and no matter how unfit he is or out of form or how other players are playing he, Carlos Tevez, should be first choice no matter what.

And this is what this is all about. We either want players that will play for the team as much for themselves or we want players who think they are bigger than the team and will hand in transfer requests when we hit top spot and do interviews slagging off the club executives and claim they have a hotline to Sheikh Mansour and throw a moody strop when asked to come on the pitch and help the team in an important match.

Mancini when asked this morning about his authority replied that it was important that the club be strengthened by this and he is right. City has to grow as a club where this sort of player attitude is not tolerated. I believe City are getting there and Tevez is the last remaining player who has this attitude, an attitude that was tolerated and pandered to by City through short term necessity but which we no longer feel the need to do so.

Our mistake was not move Tevez on in the summer. Ideally we will now do so in January. In my opinion there will be no sackings or tearing up of contracts but rather a pragmatic resolution of the issue with a cut price sale in January and a degree of reconciliation in the interim but with Tevez playing little of no meaningful part in the squad.

I am not saying the details in Munich are unimportant they aren't but the crux of the matter is what does this club want to be long term and does having a senior player with an attitude that is notoriously toxic, unless coddled and pandered to, a template for long term sustainable success?

No it isn't.

And finally whilst everyone is jumping up and down claiming a 'misunderstanding' well that cuts both ways and instead of sitting there sulking like a spoilt brat how about clearing up that 'misunderstanding' there and then and getting on with the game or how about not creating any 'misunderstanding' in the first place and just doing as you are instructed rather than refusing to do so at a crucial time in the match?

I absolutely accept what you're saying with one exception. The details of what happened on Tuesday are crucial if we take any action that may involve us in legal proceedings, including contract termination.

Tevez's previous may well sway the board and manager but if we plan to take any unilateral action that impacts his contract then that potentially has to be provable in court.

Which is why I believe a compromise of some sort will result.

I agree.

But I never believed that there would be any contract termination. Media reports yesterday stated that Mancini does not favour contract termination but rather a sale in January to raise what funds we can. Its about Mancini believing that Tevez has no future in this squad and Tevez doesn't want a future in this squad unless he is top dog which isn't going to happen so everyone moves on.

The investigation will be just be a round of finger pointing but Tevez did (again) act in an unprofessional manner by not doing as he was instructed (warm up) in preparation for coming on. I understand that Tevez refused to do a proper warm down after the Everton game and had to be coerced into doing so. By acting as he did Tevez created the grounds for confusion and confrontation in what was already a tense moment. Instead of concentrating on what was good for the team as everyone else was doing Tevez was concentrating on himself and his feelings and bollocks to everything else. Tevez's act of refusal was the catalyst for everything that followed.

There is no point in pretending any more that having Tevez in the squad or at City is a positive. Its not. Its a massive negative. Mancini argued that Tevez should be allowed to leave for the good of the squad but the board in essence disagreed. It was £50m or keep Tevez. It was a win/win situation in their eyes after all what could go wrong?

Promulgating the idea that this all rests on Mancini (and I am not including you in this PB) is asinine. Tevez has spent 2 years being exempted from all blame for everything that has happened. The moody strops, the less that Captain like behaviour, public criticism of executives, transfer requests, staying/not staying etc etc. City share some blame for having enabled this behaviour, as has Mancini, but on Tuesday the enabling finally stopped as far as Mancini is concerned and for the club it has to stop as well. Enough is enough.

I don't have a problem with a compromise. Its suits everyone and as long as Mancini gets to see the back of Tevez in January it will suit him as well.

 

[mancity1]

One thing I know for certain is Tevez has played his last game in a City shirt irrespective of what else happens.

He will be moved on before January or during January albeit at a much reduced price.

King Carlos is no more long live the kingdom.

 

[Weston Blue]

I agree.

But I never believed that there would be any contract termination. Media reports yesterday stated that Mancini does not favour contract termination but rather a sale in January to raise what funds we can. Its about Mancini believing that Tevez has no future in this squad and Tevez doesn't want a future in this squad unless he is top dog which isn't going to happen so everyone moves on.

The investigation will be just be a round of finger pointing but Tevez did (again) act in an unprofessional manner by not doing as he was instructed (warm up) in preparation for coming on. I understand that Tevez refused to do a proper warm down after the Everton game and had to be coerced into doing so. By acting as he did Tevez created the grounds for confusion and confrontation in what was already a tense moment. Instead of concentrating on what was good for the team as everyone else was doing Tevez was concentrating on himself and his feelings and bollocks to everything else. Tevez's act of refusal was the catalyst for everything that followed.

There is no point in pretending any more that having Tevez in the squad or at City is a positive. Its not. Its a massive negative. Mancini argued that Tevez should be allowed to leave for the good of the squad but the board in essence disagreed. It was £50m or keep Tevez. It was a win/win situation in their eyes after all what could go wrong?

Promulgating the idea that this all rests on Mancini (and I am not including you in this PB) is asinine[/size]. Tevez has spent 2 years being exempted from all blame for everything that has happened. The moody strops, the less that Captain like behaviour, public criticism of executives, transfer requests, staying/not staying etc etc. City share some blame for having enabled this behaviour, as has Mancini, but on Tuesday the enabling finally stopped as far as Mancini is concerned and for the club it has to stop as well. Enough is enough.

I don't have a problem with a compromise. Its suits everyone and as long as Mancini gets to see the back of Tevez in January it will suit him as well.

Fantastic. I never thought I would see promulgating (Promote or make widely known (an idea or cause)) and asinine (Extremely stupid or foolish) in a thread on Bluemoon.

 

[SWP's back]

Why the fuck is Tevez still at the club after all the problems he's caused? Someone with sense would have seen this coming a mile off.

On Sunday June 19th, 2011, Didsbury Dave posted the following:

"Tevez is the best player we have had at this club in a generation. Anyone with city's interests at heart will be delighted if he stays."

As someone who had been arguing since my first Bluemoon posts that the sale of Tevez was vital to our development as a team and as someone who has been a City supporter for 60 years, I found this post offensive.

He did say someone with sense.

 

[mancity1]

Re: Re: Re: Mancini's future

Everyone still thinks OJ murdered his wife

But no its not black and white nothing ever is. And all this is not just about Tuesday and whether it was about refusing to warm up or refusing to come on or both or first refusing then 'reluctantly' getting up and then sitting down.

This is about Tevez not being the man. Not being Captain and not being top dog. We all saw the half hearted warm ups prior to coming on already this season. The less than stellar performances when he did come on and we all know why because it happened at manu. Tevez as main man will do the business because it feeds his ego. Tevez relegated to squad player was not as effective at manu and was never going to be effective here. Tevez wants preferential treatment and doesn't want to be constrained by the norms that govern other players.

Instead of being eager to help the team in Munich or anywhere for that matter his first instinct is to feel sorry for himself. How the way he is being treated is unfair as he is the man and last seasons top scorer and no matter how unfit he is or out of form or how other players are playing he, Carlos Tevez, should be first choice no matter what.

And this is what this is all about. We either want players that will play for the team as much for themselves or we want players who think they are bigger than the team and will hand in transfer requests when we hit top spot and do interviews slagging off the club executives and claim they have a hotline to Sheikh Mansour and throw a moody strop when asked to come on the pitch and help the team in an important match.

Mancini when asked this morning about his authority replied that it was important that the club be strengthened by this and he is right. City has to grow as a club where this sort of player attitude is not tolerated. I believe City are getting there and Tevez is the last remaining player who has this attitude, an attitude that was tolerated and pandered to by City through short term necessity but which we no longer feel the need to do so.

Our mistake was not move Tevez on in the summer. Ideally we will now do so in January. In my opinion there will be no sackings or tearing up of contracts but rather a pragmatic resolution of the issue with a cut price sale in January and a degree of reconciliation in the interim but with Tevez playing little of no meaningful part in the squad.

I am not saying the details in Munich are unimportant they aren't but the crux of the matter is what does this club want to be long term and does having a senior player with an attitude that is notoriously toxic, unless coddled and pandered to, a template for long term sustainable success?

No it isn't.

And finally whilst everyone is jumping up and down claiming a 'misunderstanding' well that cuts both ways and instead of sitting there sulking like a spoilt brat how about clearing up that 'misunderstanding' there and then and getting on with the game or how about not creating any 'misunderstanding' in the first place and just doing as you are instructed rather than refusing to do so at a crucial time in the match?

I absolutely accept what you're saying with one exception. The details of what happened on Tuesday are crucial if we take any action that may involve us in legal proceedings, including contract termination.

Tevez's previous may well sway the board and manager but if we plan to take any unilateral action that impacts his contract then that potentially has to be provable in court.

Which is why I believe a compromise of some sort will result.

I agree.

But I never believed that there would be any contract termination. Media reports yesterday stated that Mancini does not favour contract termination but rather a sale in January to raise what funds we can. Its about Mancini believing that Tevez has no future in this squad and Tevez doesn't want a future in this squad unless he is top dog which isn't going to happen so everyone moves on.

The investigation will be just be a round of finger pointing but Tevez did (again) act in an unprofessional manner by not doing as he was instructed (warm up) in preparation for coming on. I understand that Tevez refused to do a proper warm down after the Everton game and had to be coerced into doing so. By acting as he did Tevez created the grounds for confusion and confrontation in what was already a tense moment. Instead of concentrating on what was good for the team as everyone else was doing Tevez was concentrating on himself and his feelings and bollocks to everything else. Tevez's act of refusal was the catalyst for everything that followed.

There is no point in pretending any more that having Tevez in the squad or at City is a positive. Its not. Its a massive negative. Mancini argued that Tevez should be allowed to leave for the good of the squad but the board in essence disagreed. It was £50m or keep Tevez. It was a win/win situation in their eyes after all what could go wrong?

Promulgating the idea that this all rests on Mancini (and I am not including you in this PB) is asinine. Tevez has spent 2 years being exempted from all blame for everything that has happened. The moody strops, the less that Captain like behaviour, public criticism of executives, transfer requests, staying/not staying etc etc. City share some blame for having enabled this behaviour, as has Mancini, but on Tuesday the enabling finally stopped as far as Mancini is concerned and for the club it has to stop as well. Enough is enough.

I don't have a problem with a compromise. Its suits everyone and as long as Mancini gets to see the back of Tevez in January it will suit him as well.

A bit of poetic license BK but I don't think she was his wife at the time she was murdered as he had divorced her sometime prior to the event that in a recent survey of Afro American's found that at least 30 per cent of that population still believe he is innocent of that crime.

The evidence in my opinion points to him doing the deed but as I didn't witness it I cannot say he did with 100 per cent certainty.

Like Tevez he is a stubborn bugger and rather than write a book admitting he did it he will go to his grave denying it (lol).

 

[moomba]

OJ got off because the balance of probability in criminal court fall to the side of the defendant. In civil court, where the balance of probability is less stringent he lost and was successfully sued for millions.

 

[mackenzie]

Everyone still thinks OJ murdered his wife

But no its not black and white nothing ever is. And all this is not just about Tuesday and whether it was about refusing to warm up or refusing to come on or both or first refusing then 'reluctantly' getting up and then sitting down.

This is about Tevez not being the man. Not being Captain and not being top dog. We all saw the half hearted warm ups prior to coming on already this season. The less than stellar performances when he did come on and we all know why because it happened at manu. Tevez as main man will do the business because it feeds his ego. Tevez relegated to squad player was not as effective at manu and was never going to be effective here. Tevez wants preferential treatment and doesn't want to be constrained by the norms that govern other players.

Instead of being eager to help the team in Munich or anywhere for that matter his first instinct is to feel sorry for himself. How the way he is being treated is unfair as he is the man and last seasons top scorer and no matter how unfit he is or out of form or how other players are playing he, Carlos Tevez, should be first choice no matter what.

And this is what this is all about. We either want players that will play for the team as much for themselves or we want players who think they are bigger than the team and will hand in transfer requests when we hit top spot and do interviews slagging off the club executives and claim they have a hotline to Sheikh Mansour and throw a moody strop when asked to come on the pitch and help the team in an important match.

Mancini when asked this morning about his authority replied that it was important that the club be strengthened by this and he is right. City has to grow as a club where this sort of player attitude is not tolerated. I believe City are getting there and Tevez is the last remaining player who has this attitude, an attitude that was tolerated and pandered to by City through short term necessity but which we no longer feel the need to do so.

Our mistake was not move Tevez on in the summer. Ideally we will now do so in January. In my opinion there will be no sackings or tearing up of contracts but rather a pragmatic resolution of the issue with a cut price sale in January and a degree of reconciliation in the interim but with Tevez playing little of no meaningful part in the squad.

I am not saying the details in Munich are unimportant they aren't but the crux of the matter is what does this club want to be long term and does having a senior player with an attitude that is notoriously toxic, unless coddled and pandered to, a template for long term sustainable success?

No it isn't.

And finally whilst everyone is jumping up and down claiming a 'misunderstanding' well that cuts both ways and instead of sitting there sulking like a spoilt brat how about clearing up that 'misunderstanding' there and then and getting on with the game or how about not creating any 'misunderstanding' in the first place and just doing as you are instructed rather than refusing to do so at a crucial time in the match?

I absolutely accept what you're saying with one exception. The details of what happened on Tuesday are crucial if we take any action that may involve us in legal proceedings, including contract termination.

Tevez's previous may well sway the board and manager but if we plan to take any unilateral action that impacts his contract then that potentially has to be provable in court.

Which is why I believe a compromise of some sort will result.

I agree.

But I never believed that there would be any contract termination. Media reports yesterday stated that Mancini does not favour contract termination but rather a sale in January to raise what funds we can. Its about Mancini believing that Tevez has no future in this squad and Tevez doesn't want a future in this squad unless he is top dog which isn't going to happen so everyone moves on.

The investigation will be just be a round of finger pointing but Tevez did (again) act in an unprofessional manner by not doing as he was instructed (warm up) in preparation for coming on. I understand that Tevez refused to do a proper warm down after the Everton game and had to be coerced into doing so. By acting as he did Tevez created the grounds for confusion and confrontation in what was already a tense moment. Instead of concentrating on what was good for the team as everyone else was doing Tevez was concentrating on himself and his feelings and bollocks to everything else. Tevez's act of refusal was the catalyst for everything that followed.

There is no point in pretending any more that having Tevez in the squad or at City is a positive. Its not. Its a massive negative. Mancini argued that Tevez should be allowed to leave for the good of the squad but the board in essence disagreed. It was £50m or keep Tevez. It was a win/win situation in their eyes after all what could go wrong?

Promulgating the idea that this all rests on Mancini (and I am not including you in this PB) is asinine. Tevez has spent 2 years being exempted from all blame for everything that has happened. The moody strops, the less that Captain like behaviour, public criticism of executives, transfer requests, staying/not staying etc etc. City share some blame for having enabled this behaviour, as has Mancini, but on Tuesday the enabling finally stopped as far as Mancini is concerned and for the club it has to stop as well. Enough is enough.

I don't have a problem with a compromise. Its suits everyone and as long as Mancini gets to see the back of Tevez in January it will suit him as well.

Excellent post, and this would explain Tevez's seeming confusion as to what the reaction was. In other words, he got a reaction that was unexpected.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Re: Mancini's future

I absolutely accept what you're saying with one exception. The details of what happened on Tuesday are crucial if we take any action that may involve us in legal proceedings, including contract termination.

Tevez's previous may well sway the board and manager but if we plan to take any unilateral action that impacts his contract then that potentially has to be provable in court.

Which is why I believe a compromise of some sort will result.

I agree.

But I never believed that there would be any contract termination. Media reports yesterday stated that Mancini does not favour contract termination but rather a sale in January to raise what funds we can. Its about Mancini believing that Tevez has no future in this squad and Tevez doesn't want a future in this squad unless he is top dog which isn't going to happen so everyone moves on.

The investigation will be just be a round of finger pointing but Tevez did (again) act in an unprofessional manner by not doing as he was instructed (warm up) in preparation for coming on. I understand that Tevez refused to do a proper warm down after the Everton game and had to be coerced into doing so. By acting as he did Tevez created the grounds for confusion and confrontation in what was already a tense moment. Instead of concentrating on what was good for the team as everyone else was doing Tevez was concentrating on himself and his feelings and bollocks to everything else. Tevez's act of refusal was the catalyst for everything that followed.

There is no point in pretending any more that having Tevez in the squad or at City is a positive. Its not. Its a massive negative. Mancini argued that Tevez should be allowed to leave for the good of the squad but the board in essence disagreed. It was £50m or keep Tevez. It was a win/win situation in their eyes after all what could go wrong?

Promulgating the idea that this all rests on Mancini (and I am not including you in this PB) is asinine. Tevez has spent 2 years being exempted from all blame for everything that has happened. The moody strops, the less that Captain like behaviour, public criticism of executives, transfer requests, staying/not staying etc etc. City share some blame for having enabled this behaviour, as has Mancini, but on Tuesday the enabling finally stopped as far as Mancini is concerned and for the club it has to stop as well. Enough is enough.

I don't have a problem with a compromise. Its suits everyone and as long as Mancini gets to see the back of Tevez in January it will suit him as well.

Excellent post, and this would explain Tevez's seeming confusion as to what the reaction was. In other words, he got a reaction that was unexpected.

Like a bully whose victim suddenly turns on him