Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[Larry Stranger]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJSEsC0vens[/video]

just by looking at a few goals you can tell the difference in the speed that we passed, moved and broke on teams. A million miles away now.

And a lot of this was because of Negredo who was on fire in the beginning of the season. If he insists on playing a 4-4-2 we must find a replacement who can control the ball well and can also score goals at the same time. Problem is I can't think of any striker at the moment who can play like that.

 

[Shaelumstash]

The intensity has gone. The intensity of pressing, or breaking, of passing. It's like the entire team (Kompany excepted) don't have the petrol in the tank to lift ourselves for 90 minutes. It's been there all season - we have played well in spells, not for 90 minutes. Part of it might be an age thing - some of them around the 30 mark don't seem to have that extra 10%. Ya Ya is the perfect example. He's driving/bossing things a little bit, but not like he was. And it applies to others too. Without Silva this problem is ratcheted up because he's the diamond, the match winner, the one who can carry us.

With regards to the European performacnes, Ithink an element of it is the English game now. It's so diferent from the rest of Europe that all the English teams are looking poor. Moscow, a team who haven't got one player we would buy, looked more comfortable on the ball than us and more intense.

With regards to the manager, he's got a massive test of his character because his back is up against the wall. There's a collective confidence problem with no easy solutions. Of course, buying players is a long term solution but II'm more concerned about this season. Players like Fernando and Fernadinho don't look fit. They don't know whether to stick or twist.Reliable players like Clichy and Zab are giving the ball away. I had no problem with the team he picked last night, or particularly with the changes, although I wouldn't have brought Nasri on for Jovetic. This is not about tactics or formation: there's a wider malaise, and if he doesn't put it right the season is going to be over pretty quickly. Everything that we do well: passing, temp, incisiveness, has gone.

The pressure is on everyone now. By hook or by crook, we have to beat QPR, get to the break and recharge our flat batteries somehow. Mentally and physically.

Do you not think our world class, tactically astute manager will turn it around mate?

 

[Chi-town blues]

The intensity has gone. The intensity of pressing, or breaking, of passing. It's like the entire team (Kompany excepted) don't have the petrol in the tank to lift ourselves for 90 minutes. It's been there all season - we have played well in spells, not for 90 minutes. Part of it might be an age thing - some of them around the 30 mark don't seem to have that extra 10%. Ya Ya is the perfect example. He's driving/bossing things a little bit, but not like he was. And it applies to others too. Without Silva this problem is ratcheted up because he's the diamond, the match winner, the one who can carry us.

With regards to the European performacnes, Ithink an element of it is the English game now. It's so diferent from the rest of Europe that all the English teams are looking poor. Moscow, a team who haven't got one player we would buy, looked more comfortable on the ball than us and more intense.

With regards to the manager, he's got a massive test of his character because his back is up against the wall. There's a collective confidence problem with no easy solutions. Of course, buying players is a long term solution but II'm more concerned about this season. Players like Fernando and Fernadinho don't look fit. They don't know whether to stick or twist.Reliable players like Clichy and Zab are giving the ball away. I had no problem with the team he picked last night, or particularly with the changes, although I wouldn't have brought Nasri on for Jovetic. This is not about tactics or formation: there's a wider malaise, and if he doesn't put it right the season is going to be over pretty quickly. Everything that we do well: passing, temp, incisiveness, has gone.

The pressure is on everyone now. By hook or by crook, we have to beat QPR, get to the break and recharge our flat batteries somehow. Mentally and physically.

Do you not think our world class, tactically astute manager will turn it around mate?

Yup ..we were promised that his experience would take us to promise land in Europe .

That Charming Cueless Arrogant Man

 

[Bill]

anyone think he's a clown yet?

 

[FantasyIreland]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/talking-tactics-persisting-with-wrong-formation-is-killing-manchester-city-9845216.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 45216.html</a>
By Danny Higginbottom

City are the only team I’ve seen who are trying to play 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 at the same time. It’s killing them.

City are set up as a 4-4-2 and the way that system works is well established. In a 4-4-2, one full-back should stay back to ensure there will always be three at the back. But City’s full-backs are attacking like a 4-2-3-1 – both going at the same time and the defensive midfielders join in, too.


If any CSKA scout, before Wednesday’s match, had watched City play West Ham, Newcastle and Manchester United they would have seen exactly the same vulnerability. They are not defending like a 4-4-2. They should be looking to have an attacking six and a defensive four. Instead, they had an attacking eight and a defending two. That means there is simply no protection for the centre-backs and City are most vulnerable when they attack.

It’s obvious they need to be set up as a 4-2-3-1.

I don’t know why Manuel Pellegrini – and presumably also the director of football, Txiki Begiristain – doesn’t see that City’s squad suits 4-2-3-1 incredibly well. All their full-backs are incredibly attack-minded. They have the creative players for a 4-2-3-1, with David Silva on one side, Samir Nasri, Jesus Navas or James Milner on the other and – to my mind – Yaya Youré behind the striker.

They also have the intelligence of Sergio Aguero, who will drop deep to create room in behind for runners or stretch the game himself. They have also spent heavily on defensive midfielders to provide the counterbalance. Why do they persist with the 4-4-2? It’s a mystery to me.

Yaya Touré must be as frustrated as hell.

He is one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, yet he’s being hugely under-utilised. He is taking a lot of the criticism for the way City’s game has dropped off this season but he is being asked to play a role which doesn’t conform to his strengths.

He isn’t a defensive-minded player, yet Pellegrini keeps playing him in the pair in front of defence, where he is expected to demonstrate the defensive side of his game. And then he gets stick when he doesn’t deliver.

It’s not as if City lack defensive midfielders. They’ve bought Fernando and Fernandinho. At one point on Wednesday night, City seemed to see the light. With Fernando and Fernandinho both on the field after half-time, Touré was sent up. But within 20 minutes Fernando was off and Touré was back where he started.

It’s healthy for players to have a little fear of their manager. I don’t see it with these players and Pellegrini.

I expected to see some public criticism from Pellegrini for the players who were sent off. I would certainly have expected that myself. Players know. Every manager I’ve played for would have come out and said that was unacceptable if I’d been sent off at a critical moment like that. Louis van Gaal did it after Chris Smalling’s moments of madness against City last weekend. Pellegrini gave Touré a get-out. He said it might have been “nervousness” in the player. Well, I’m sorry but there should have no get-out.

I felt a healthy fear factor for any manager I respected. Not a physical fear, but a sense that I’d be accountable. Maybe we are not seeing the full picture because Pellegrini doesn’t say much publicly, but I would go so far as to say that there seem to be a few untouchables in this City team.

I keep coming back to City’s lack of Plan B.

We talked about it on these pages last week. City’s Plan A is 4-4-2, their Plan B is frustration. They’ve been behind at half-time under Pellegrini 13 times now and still managed to win only three times, losing the remaining 10.

Teams know what they will get against City. They are sitting deep against them, drawing them in then just hitting them on the counter-attack. As one of the CSKA players said: “We knew that they were going to come against us with big numbers and we knew [as a result] that they are vulnerable in the counter-attacks.” Just as at Newcastle last week, there were no alternative ideas. City looked less likely to score as the game went on

 

[Anonymous]

FFS - can't believe I'm agreeing with Danny Higginbottom but that article is bang on imho.

Please Pellers, wake up and smell the Arabica before it's too fucking late.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

That's a great article and raises some very salient points.

There appears to be no "fear" of the manager from the players. No fear of consequences. That is a recipe for disaster. And it is not the managers fault per se. It is the fault of the Spanish duo. They made it clear two years ago that THEY fear the players and will always take their side against the manager. Any manager.

And it is clear there are some untouchables in our squad. I don't believe that is the managers fault either. I believe it comes from these two.

Love him or hate him, the problems in the club today were borne two years ago when these two idiots sacked Mancini because Dzeko, Hart , et al didn't like being asked to train hard. That set a precedent with the squad and any subsequent manager(s) as the players knew they wagged the dog. Get rid of MP, it doesn't matter. The next fella will have the same set of problems eventually.

They even allowed the guy who assisted the guy who assisted the guy that washes the teams socks to have an influence on wether the manager stays or goes the minute they took any notice of the fact that they were upset that they didn't always get an "hello" every day.

These two are a major threat to our club.

You can sack as many managers as you want, but if these two stay then you're not solving any problems. Pellers is a decent guy, and clearly a decent manager as last season showed. But if he is being told to play 442 at all costs it's not his fault if it goes wrong.

Save our season? Simple. Sack the Spanish two. Now.

 

[waspish]

Overreaction bullshit ^^^^^

 

[mosssideblue]

anyone think he's a clown yet?

NO!. He has put teams out that should have mullered the opposition, not his fault if they cannot be arsed.

He is due some stick for some games, but on the whole, the players should look in the mirror.

 

[Utter bobbins]

That's a great article and raises some very salient points.

There appears to be no "fear" of the manager from the players. No fear of consequences. That is a recipe for disaster. And it is not the managers fault per se. It is the fault of the Spanish duo. They made it clear two years ago that THEY fear the players and will always take their side against the manager. Any manager.

And it is clear there are some untouchables in our squad. I don't believe that is the managers fault either. I believe it comes from these two.

Love him or hate him, the problems in the club today were borne two years ago when these two idiots sacked Mancini because Dzeko, Hart , et al didn't like being asked to train hard. That set a precedent with the squad and any subsequent manager(s) as the players knew they wagged the dog. Get rid of MP, it doesn't matter. The next fella will have the same set of problems eventually.

They even allowed the guy who assisted the guy who assisted the guy that washes the teams socks to have an influence on wether the manager stays or goes the minute they took any notice of the fact that they were upset that they didn't always get an "hello" every day.

These two are a major threat to our club.

You can sack as many managers as you want, but if these two stay then you're not solving any problems. Pellers is a decent guy, and clearly a decent manager as last season showed. But if he is being told to play 442 at all costs it's not his fault if it goes wrong.

Save our season? Simple. Sack the Spanish two. Now.

Seriously

 

[PragueBlue]

anyone think he's a clown yet?

NO!. He has put teams out that should have mullered the opposition, not his fault if they cannot be arsed.

He is due some stick for some games, but on the whole, the players should look in the mirror.

Actually it is his fault if they cannot be arsed. He's paid not just to pick a team each game but to motivate them and get them arsed for the match.

If he can't do that. then his days are numbered.

Having said that, I don't believe effort levels are the problem anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

The thing is, I have some faith in Ferran as CEO and Txiki as DoF as whilst I might not agree with manner it happened, it was right Bob went when he did. Pellers (again imho) was needed last season as a steadying hand on the rudder so was absolutely the right appointment. Player recruitment-wise Txiki got players in the majority of us at the time were happy with. These two have excellent connections and are very well respected throughout football which in turn is good for City. The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

 

[swinton blue]

I've heard pellegrini in a few interviews saying how keeping a clean sheet is very important but then sets the team out so attacking that we get caught out clean sheet out of the window. Pack the midfield keep it tight keep a clean sheet and 9 times out of 10 we will win as sergio is more than good enough on his own up top. Most of our best performances last year is when we were forced to play dzeko up front on his own due to injuries

 

[BillyShears]

The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

You deeply deeply underestimate the job Pellegrini did last season. Both mentally and physically he got the players to play to their maximum and even when all seemed to be lost and the heads could've dropped, he got them to go and keep winning games until the title came.

He did this whilst teaching them a totally different way to play than Mancini had them playing.

I appreciate that you don't rate him, but don't retrospectively try and make out that all he did was turn up and smile and be nice and everything else was just luck.

This thread's going to be comedy gold come the springtime IMO.

 

[blue ranger]

You have to admit though that last year we so nearly fucked up - liverpool totally capitulated at the end of the season. In reality ...... we should never have won that league.

 

[moomba]

You have to admit though that last year we so nearly fucked up - liverpool totally capitulated at the end of the season. In reality ...... we should never have won that league.

They won 12 of their last 14. They could have won 13 of their last 14 and we still would have won the league.

Losing to Chelsea at home isn't a capitulation. We should know that as we did it as well.

 

[BillyShears]

You have to admit though that last year we so nearly fucked up - liverpool totally capitulated at the end of the season. In reality ...... we should never have won that league.

Liverpool didn't handle the pressure and we did, it's part of what you need in your make up as a group if you want to win the title. Same with the rags during Mancini's title winning season - they were such an experienced team too - couldn't handle the pressure in the title decider at the Etihad, they froze and we comfortably beat them.

I think we also need to decide as a group of supporters what our expectations are season on season and what should happen if they're not met. Lets say Pellegrini finishes 2nd and doesn't win a trophy - should he just be sacked? If he is then what? Next guy same thing - win something in your first season or you're out?

That's neither realistic nor do I think that's the way the owners and Soriano/Txiki will operate. You have to give people time to do their jobs. I realise that people will immediately point to Mancini and what happened with him, but as Exeter so succinctly put it earlier in the thread, his position was untenable as much for off field reasons as for what happened on the pitch.

 

[Anonymous]

The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

You deeply deeply underestimate the job Pellegrini did last season. Both mentally and physically he got the players to play to their maximum and even when all seemed to be lost and the heads could've dropped, he got them to go and keep winning games until the title came.

He did this whilst teaching them a totally different way to play than Mancini had them playing.

I appreciate that you don't rate him, but don't retrospectively try and make out that all he did was turn up and smile and be nice and everything else was just luck.

This thread's going to be comedy gold come the springtime IMO.

I've not said that in all fairness - I said he was the right appointment and a steadying hand on the rudder - I didn't say anywhere last season was down to luck and smiles and being nice. In fact I don't think I've given a critique of last season anywhere in that post?

Ultimately though, that's all he is at City isn't he: a handle turner? He's only keeping the seat warm until Pep is reunited with Ferran & Txiki; he is a lame duck in that respect isn't he? Or is this not our end game (getting Pep in for the start of next season)? I guess all he has to do this season (in reality) is ensure a top 4 finish.

Chilean Wenger.

 

[Shaelumstash]

The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

You deeply deeply underestimate the job Pellegrini did last season. Both mentally and physically he got the players to play to their maximum and even when all seemed to be lost and the heads could've dropped, he got them to go and keep winning games until the title came.

He did this whilst teaching them a totally different way to play than Mancini had them playing.

I appreciate that you don't rate him, but don't retrospectively try and make out that all he did was turn up and smile and be nice and everything else was just luck.

This thread's going to be comedy gold come the springtime IMO.

I've not said that in all fairness - I said he was the right appointment and a steadying hand on the rudder - I didn't say anywhere last season was down to luck and smiles and being nice. In fact I don't think I've given a critique of last season anywhere in that post?

Ultimately though, that's all he is at City isn't he: a handle turner? He's only keeping the seat warm until Pep is reunited with Ferran & Txiki; he is a lame duck in that respect isn't he? Or is this not our end game (getting Pep in for the start of next season)? I guess all he has to do this season (in reality) is ensure a top 4 finish.

Chilean Wenger.

Chilean Keegan.

 

[BillyShears]

The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

You deeply deeply underestimate the job Pellegrini did last season. Both mentally and physically he got the players to play to their maximum and even when all seemed to be lost and the heads could've dropped, he got them to go and keep winning games until the title came.

He did this whilst teaching them a totally different way to play than Mancini had them playing.

I appreciate that you don't rate him, but don't retrospectively try and make out that all he did was turn up and smile and be nice and everything else was just luck.

This thread's going to be comedy gold come the springtime IMO.

I've not said that in all fairness - I said he was the right appointment and a steadying hand on the rudder - I didn't say anywhere last season was down to luck and smiles and being nice. In fact I don't think I've given a critique of last season anywhere in that post?

Ultimately though, that's all he is at City isn't he: a handle turner? He's only keeping the seat warm until Pep is reunited with Ferran & Txiki; he is a lame duck in that respect isn't he? Or is this not our end game (getting Pep in for the start of next season)? I guess all he has to do this season (in reality) is ensure a top 4 finish.

Chilean Wenger.

Every manager is only a stop gap until the next one.

As for Chilean Wenger. I've no problem with that. Last season at this point he was characterized as the Chilean Moyes.

No you didn't explicitly give a critique of last season but You've posted enough about Pellegrini for me to know you don't rate him.