Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[chedlee]

I don't think the system we are playing is wrong, no system can be wrong, it is a system. The problem, for me is two-fold; the players aren't able to play the system well enough at the moment (same players did it ok last year) and the response to that inability isn't consistent across the team.
If we find that our pressing/passing game isn't working effectively the players are trying to make amends in different ways; some intensify and speed up the play and passing (Milner, Jovetic, Kun, Kompany,Navas) others slow it down (Nasri, Yaya, Zab,Fernando) and the rest get caught somewhere in between so it looks even more dis-jointed and gets worse.
One or two players seem to be able to adapt perfectly (DeMichelis, Silva) but until they all up tempo or down tempo together that's what we will see more of.
Confidence is a big word in this, to play our game effectively the whole team needs to feel confident - in their own ability and each others. That's what got us across the finish line so effectively last season, that's why Kompany keeps tweeting about belief etc.
Doubt they will be panicking but they will be very concerned and we need to trust them to sort it and believe they will.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

The thing is, I have some faith in Ferran as CEO and Txiki as DoF as whilst I might not agree with manner it happened, it was right Bob went when he did. Pellers (again imho) was needed last season as a steadying hand on the rudder so was absolutely the right appointment. Player recruitment-wise Txiki got players in the majority of us at the time were happy with. These two have excellent connections and are very well respected throughout football which in turn is good for City. The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

A manager proves his worth in adversity. There's never been a manager in the history of football who didn't have !a bad moment" as Pellegrini calls it. There were loads of times when Man United had big dips, or started seasons badly, or whatever, but Ferguson ultimately responded and got them back delivering as a team.

This is Pellegrini's first proper one in our job. He has shown more than enough in his career to date, and in his first year with us, for me to believe he will put it right. We will see as the season progresses.

But the important thing is this: unless you have an idiot Chairman, managers are not sacked "because they didn't win the league" or anything that has happened in the past. They are sacked because of how the board perceive the future will pan out. It's the same in business. So it's up to him now to prove he has what it takes over the rest of the season. There will be no specific set of criteria: a league win, a trophy, whatever. It will be all about whether he can take hold of the team, and the club, and work with the D of F, to push City forward.

I still think he will.

 

[moomba]

I think we also need to decide as a group of supporters what our expectations are season on season and what should happen if they're not met. Lets say Pellegrini finishes 2nd and doesn't win a trophy - should he just be sacked? If he is then what? Next guy same thing - win something in your first season or you're out?

I think everyone is entitled to a down season, player and manager. Seems to be the way nowadays that people need someone to pay for any failure but I reckon thats a bit shortsighted. So if we fall short of my expectations this season what I'd be looking for (if I had a say) is answers to how things will change in the next season. Providing I'm satisfied with those answers then he has to be given the chance. Even more so given the fact that MP has achieved success with us, that has to count for something.

What I wouldn't want is one down season to become two down seasons so if we don't meet expectations this year I'd be looking to see improvements fairly early in the piece. If we're still having the same problems then it wouldn't take much for me to think a change is needed.

 

[blueparrot]

We are half way through a three year cycle not just with the manager but financially as well. The club will be well into planning the next 3 year cycle, including the next manager. In this ' pinch ' year it would take a lot more than early exit from C/L to make the club change course we'd probably need to be looking like finishing out of the top 3 for them to change plans now. Next season after our pinch we will have money to spend on the best player available.

 

[George Hannah]

The thing is, I have some faith in Ferran as CEO and Txiki as DoF as whilst I might not agree with manner it happened, it was right Bob went when he did. Pellers (again imho) was needed last season as a steadying hand on the rudder so was absolutely the right appointment. Player recruitment-wise Txiki got players in the majority of us at the time were happy with. These two have excellent connections and are very well respected throughout football which in turn is good for City. The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

A manager proves his worth in adversity. There's never been a manager in the history of football who didn't have !a bad moment" as Pellegrini calls it. There were loads of times when Man United had big dips, or started seasons badly, or whatever, but Ferguson ultimately responded and got them back delivering as a team.

This is Pellegrini's first proper one in our job. He has shown more than enough in his career to date, and in his first year with us, for me to believe he will put it right. We will see as the season progresses.

But the important thing is this: unless you have an idiot Chairman, managers are not sacked "because they didn't win the league" or anything that has happened in the past. They are sacked because of how the board perceive the future will pan out. It's the same in business. So it's up to him now to prove he has what it takes over the rest of the season. There will be no specific set of criteria: a league win, a trophy, whatever. It will be all about whether he can take hold of the team, and the club, and work with the D of F, to push City forward.

I still think he will.

I can't recall a game where we have played really well all season and in the last month we have been awful. Defeats tomorrow and against Bayern may result in his early demise if another candidate made himself available but surely would signal his exit in the summer bar a remarkable turnaround.

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

You have to admit though that last year we so nearly fucked up - liverpool totally capitulated at the end of the season. In reality ...... we should never have won that league.

Liverpool didn't handle the pressure and we did, it's part of what you need in your make up as a group if you want to win the title. Same with the rags during Mancini's title winning season - they were such an experienced team too - couldn't handle the pressure in the title decider at the Etihad, they froze and we comfortably beat them.

I think we also need to decide as a group of supporters what our expectations are season on season and what should happen if they're not met. Lets say Pellegrini finishes 2nd and doesn't win a trophy - should he just be sacked? If he is then what? Next guy same thing - win something in your first season or you're out?

That's neither realistic nor do I think that's the way the owners and Soriano/Txiki will operate. You have to give people time to do their jobs. I realise that people will immediately point to Mancini and what happened with him, but as Exeter so succinctly put it earlier in the thread, his position was untenable as much for off field reasons as for what happened on the pitch.

All the crap about Liverpool blowing up when in their hands and we were lucky as a consequence is a nonsense. As you rightly say, Liverpool didn't handle the pressure.

If anyone screwed up last year it was Chelsea. We tend to forget that with 4 games to go the title was in their hands. Win all 4 and they won the league. Even with the "great" Mourhino at the helm they fucked up at the first hurdle and lost an easy (on paper) home game for the 1st time when under real pressure. Of course, Mourhino wasn't at fault - it was his players.

 

[waspish]

You have to admit though that last year we so nearly fucked up - liverpool totally capitulated at the end of the season. In reality ...... we should never have won that league.

Liverpool didn't handle the pressure and we did, it's part of what you need in your make up as a group if you want to win the title. Same with the rags during Mancini's title winning season - they were such an experienced team too - couldn't handle the pressure in the title decider at the Etihad, they froze and we comfortably beat them.

I think we also need to decide as a group of supporters what our expectations are season on season and what should happen if they're not met. Lets say Pellegrini finishes 2nd and doesn't win a trophy - should he just be sacked? If he is then what? Next guy same thing - win something in your first season or you're out?

That's neither realistic nor do I think that's the way the owners and Soriano/Txiki will operate. You have to give people time to do their jobs. I realise that people will immediately point to Mancini and what happened with him, but as Exeter so succinctly put it earlier in the thread, his position was untenable as much for off field reasons as for what happened on the pitch.

All the crap about Liverpool blowing up when in their hands and we were lucky as a consequence is a nonsense. As you rightly say, Liverpool didn't handle the pressure.

If anyone screwed up last year it was Chelsea. We tend to forget that with 4 games to go the title was in their hands. Win all 4 and they won the league. Even with the "great" Mourhino at the helm they fucked up at the first hurdle and lost an easy (on paper) home game for the 1st time when under real pressure. Of course, Mourhino wasn't at fault - it was his players.

And that's why we need to be within touching distance of chelsea at the business end because they will bottle it

 

[Didsbury Dave]

The thing is, I have some faith in Ferran as CEO and Txiki as DoF as whilst I might not agree with manner it happened, it was right Bob went when he did. Pellers (again imho) was needed last season as a steadying hand on the rudder so was absolutely the right appointment. Player recruitment-wise Txiki got players in the majority of us at the time were happy with. These two have excellent connections and are very well respected throughout football which in turn is good for City. The issue for me is that when you get a steady hand on the rudder, someone just to keep turning the handle at some point there will be a difficult situation and the handle turner is often ill equipped to deal with it. This often magnifies and exacerbates a problem and in the real world changes are usually made. I appreciate football is not the real world but the problem and solution remain the same.

A manager proves his worth in adversity. There's never been a manager in the history of football who didn't have !a bad moment" as Pellegrini calls it. There were loads of times when Man United had big dips, or started seasons badly, or whatever, but Ferguson ultimately responded and got them back delivering as a team.

This is Pellegrini's first proper one in our job. He has shown more than enough in his career to date, and in his first year with us, for me to believe he will put it right. We will see as the season progresses.

But the important thing is this: unless you have an idiot Chairman, managers are not sacked "because they didn't win the league" or anything that has happened in the past. They are sacked because of how the board perceive the future will pan out. It's the same in business. So it's up to him now to prove he has what it takes over the rest of the season. There will be no specific set of criteria: a league win, a trophy, whatever. It will be all about whether he can take hold of the team, and the club, and work with the D of F, to push City forward.

I still think he will.

I can't recall a game where we have played really well all season and in the last month we have been awful. Defeats tomorrow and against Bayern may result in his early demise if another candidate made himself available but surely would signal his exit in the summer bar a remarkable turnaround.

We have started the season patchily, and have been awful in three of the last four games. I agree. I can't envisage any situation where he will be sacked mid-season but in the summer, I repeat, the board will look at the whole picture and decide whether he is the man to take us forward. The turnaround you describe as "remarkable" involves us fulfilling our potential like we did for the last three quarters of last season. Far too much melodrama around at the moment.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

You have to admit though that last year we so nearly fucked up - liverpool totally capitulated at the end of the season. In reality ...... we should never have won that league.

Liverpool didn't handle the pressure and we did, it's part of what you need in your make up as a group if you want to win the title. Same with the rags during Mancini's title winning season - they were such an experienced team too - couldn't handle the pressure in the title decider at the Etihad, they froze and we comfortably beat them.

I think we also need to decide as a group of supporters what our expectations are season on season and what should happen if they're not met. Lets say Pellegrini finishes 2nd and doesn't win a trophy - should he just be sacked? If he is then what? Next guy same thing - win something in your first season or you're out?

That's neither realistic nor do I think that's the way the owners and Soriano/Txiki will operate. You have to give people time to do their jobs. I realise that people will immediately point to Mancini and what happened with him, but as Exeter so succinctly put it earlier in the thread, his position was untenable as much for off field reasons as for what happened on the pitch.

All the crap about Liverpool blowing up when in their hands and we were lucky as a consequence is a nonsense. As you rightly say, Liverpool didn't handle the pressure.

If anyone screwed up last year it was Chelsea. We tend to forget that with 4 games to go the title was in their hands. Win all 4 and they won the league. Even with the "great" Mourhino at the helm they fucked up at the first hurdle and lost an easy (on paper) home game for the 1st time when under real pressure. Of course, Mourhino wasn't at fault - it was his players.

Totally agree but there was more to it that that with regards to Liverpool: Liverpool went on an incredible run of results which they were never going to be good enough to carry over 18 games (or whatever it was). They rode their luck hugely and over-achieved to finish second.

To have them down as some sort of Devon Loch is laughable. If anyone did a Devon Loch it was Man United in 2012, but they weren't that good a side then either.

When you win the league you win it on merit.

 

[Lucky Toma]

It's bad enough that we have plenty of non-Blues out there who believe we won last season almost by default, as if we simply picked up a dropped baton and crossed the line.

It seems there are a few of us who think this too. Which is quite depressing.

 

[mancity1]

I think we also need to decide as a group of supporters what our expectations are season on season and what should happen if they're not met. Lets say Pellegrini finishes 2nd and doesn't win a trophy - should he just be sacked? If he is then what? Next guy same thing - win something in your first season or you're out?

I think everyone is entitled to a down season, player and manager. Seems to be the way nowadays that people need someone to pay for any failure but I reckon thats a bit shortsighted. So if we fall short of my expectations this season what I'd be looking for (if I had a say) is answers to how things will change in the next season. Providing I'm satisfied with those answers then he has to be given the chance. Even more so given the fact that MP has achieved success with us, that has to count for something.

What I wouldn't want is one down season to become two down seasons so if we don't meet expectations this year I'd be looking to see improvements fairly early in the piece. If we're still having the same problems then it wouldn't take much for me to think a change is needed.

Sound logic and likely to be mirrored by the people who have the say whether a change is needed or not however the targets are usually set on a year by year basis especially for someone who in all probability is going to at best have the three year contract and then be replaced no matter the trophy haul in that three year period.

People always need new challenges and football is no different.

My take on it is that the minimum expectation for MP this season was progression in Europe despite FFPR and a 21 man squad and qualification for the same tournament next season.

I would have thought the playing group would have bought into that as well but they haven't for reasons they should know by now.

You would expect especially given the fact that Liverpool have lost a huge chunk of there scoring prowess , Manure have a new manager and are still teetering with the legacy that is Sir Alex, Arsenal well they are Arsenal and Spurs have a new manager and little strike power that this season it would be seen as a failure of some proportion if we don't finish in the top two.

Given that Chelsea are still in 4 comps and we only in two after the next game ( sorry those who think we will qualify but we will finish last and deservedly so ) we have a huge advantage over them so I would expect us and Chelsea to fight out the title this season.

I think a second place finish would place MP in a position where he may be afforded the opportunity of a final season at the helm but more likely he will get the tap on the shoulder.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

It's bad enough that we have plenty of non-Blues out there who believe we won last season almost by default, as if we simply picked up a dropped baton and crossed the line.

It seems there are a few of us who think this too. Which is quite depressing.

It was the same with the previous one and it'll be the same with the next if we don't have it wrapped up by April.

 

[kenzie115]

We were scintillating at times last season. After an inconsistent start we had a run from November to January where we played some wonderful football and beat nearly everything we came up against. However, we had a new manager, new players and a new system, opposition teams didn't know what to expect. The second half of the season went a little differently as teams came up with plans to stop us. In the end we did just enough to win what was a poor league. This season we needed fresh ideas, but Pellegrini has one system and to me, seems to be stubbornly believing that because it worked last year it will work this year, that because we've got better individuals, we can play however he wants. He's wrong in my opinion and we need to adapt to our opposition game on game. We need more than one way of playing so if a team sets up to stop Silva and Yaya through the middle, we can use Navas and Kolarov and attack the space they've left out wide, for example, and many more. We don't have that, and it's costing us.

 

[waspish]

Funny when the scum started slowly and play poorly it was always oh they will come good after Christmas bollocks from all media outlets!!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm speculating here but I reckon most can put up with a bit of a dip as long as they can feel confident the manager is going to sort it. With his post game comments though (and I understand it must be difficult when English is not your first language) the fans aren't getting that confidence. You then start to wonder if we're not getting that confidence, what are the players getting from him?

I wonder when, or if, any of our players have the bollocks to say "look boss, do you not think we need to try something different?"

As we have seen the club are not afraid to make the big decisions. I fear Manuel's stubbornness (given the fruit it is currently bearing) may well force a decision a little sooner than others are prepared to accept.

 

[BillyShears]

I'm speculating here but I reckon most can put up with a bit of a dip as long as they can feel confident the manager is going to sort it. With his post game comments though (and I understand it must be difficult when English is not your first language) the fans aren't getting that confidence. You then start to wonder if we're not getting that confidence, what are the players getting from him?

I wonder when, or if, any of our players have the bollocks to say "look boss, do you not think we need to try something different?"

So we're back to he's lost the dressing room. Just dressed in a different skirt. :)

As we have seen the club are not afraid to make the big decisions. I fear Manuel's stubbornness (given the fruit it is currently bearing) may well force a decision a little sooner than others are prepared to accept.

I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't be prepared to accept a manager had to go if he had lost the dressing room and lost the confidence of the board of directors.

Oh. Wait.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It's bad enough that we have plenty of non-Blues out there who believe we won last season almost by default, as if we simply picked up a dropped baton and crossed the line.

It seems there are a few of us who think this too. Which is quite depressing.

It was the same with the previous one and it'll be the same with the next if we don't have it wrapped up by April.

The title is won over 38 games, not 4 or 5. In 2012 and last season, we had times when results were poor and we had good winning sequences. The difference was that we held our nerve at the end and the rags, Chelsea and Liverpool didn't. For me, it was the Everton game last season that defined our title win, in the same way the 1-0 v the rags did in 2012.

 

[chedlee]

I'm speculating here but I reckon most can put up with a bit of a dip as long as they can feel confident the manager is going to sort it. With his post game comments though (and I understand it must be difficult when English is not your first language) the fans aren't getting that confidence. You then start to wonder if we're not getting that confidence, what are the players getting from him?

I wonder when, or if, any of our players have the bollocks to say "look boss, do you think we need to try?"

As we have seen the club are not afraid to make the big decisions. I fear Manuel's stubbornness (given the fruit it is currently bearing) may well force a decision a little sooner than others are prepared to accept.

Fixed :-)

Pellegrini doesn't go into too much detail to the press on anything so he isn't going to start with 'Why are you playing so crap?' - he may be stubborn but he isn't stupid.

 

[emiratblu]

Just a voice of reason for a moment
The only competition we are out of is the League Cup
We are still very much in all other comps.
MP wont be sacked, its too early, the Press are in a frenzy because the City crisis is the ultimate early Christmas present
What will be happening is getting the cheque book out now to secure a top midfielder in January, MP will also be told to watch what he is saying in Press Conferences, he is not helping when he talks about crisis, faith and trust.
Generally our squad is still suffering from the WC where none of our stars performed well and all must have come away deflated and tired with confidence levels shot to peices.
Theres no evidence that MP has lost the dressing room, the tunnel cam is a good measure of team spirit and it looks good
Tactics may need tweaking but generally things are fine
Looking ahead, if we don't progress in Europe, take an early exit in the FA Cup and don't stay close to Chelsea changes will be made.
Spending a billion pounds on a project gives you the right to expect trophies every year

 

[Anonymous]

I'm speculating here but I reckon most can put up with a bit of a dip as long as they can feel confident the manager is going to sort it. With his post game comments though (and I understand it must be difficult when English is not your first language) the fans aren't getting that confidence. You then start to wonder if we're not getting that confidence, what are the players getting from him?

I wonder when, or if, any of our players have the bollocks to say "look boss, do you not think we need to try something different?"

So we're back to he's lost the dressing room. Just dressed in a different skirt. :)

As we have seen the club are not afraid to make the big decisions. I fear Manuel's stubbornness (given the fruit it is currently bearing) may well force a decision a little sooner than others are prepared to accept.

I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't be prepared to accept a manager had to go if he had lost the dressing room and lost the confidence of the board of directors.

Oh. Wait.

Indeed and after a similar and protracted debate it was proven correct.

However this is not about any former manager it is about the current one, how he seems somewhat inflexible in his approach, cannot buy a win in Europe and is somehow failing to get a performance out of a team of first class talent.

The trajectory is currently not what the club had planned for.