Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

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city91 said:
chesterbells said:
city91 said:
If Pellegrini is to be sacked in the summer then I would also flog Kompany, Hart and any other shit house who has a big influence at the club.

We fucked up last time by backing the players over Mancini and it looks like they are following suit again.

If Pellers loses his job then I sincerly hope that the players who have badly let down two successive managers also get the chop.

You mean by moving on Mancini and going on to win the league?

I mean by backing the players over the manager. You don't let the tail wag the dog and that's what we did. Also, as it stands we haven't really moved on in the sense that Pellers is having exactly the same post league win hangover as Mancini.

By all means sack the manager but don't let the players, who are just as responsible as the manager for poor performances, off scott free.

Kompany's post match interview after we won the league summed him up for the arrogant person that he is. When ever Souness or Neville praised Pellegrini, Kompany constantly shifted the praise onto the players. Funny how he never shifted the blame from Mancini's final season to the players wasn't it.

OK, but I'm still not sure I buy it. We have moved on in that we appointed a new manager, who then lead those players to another title. Yes, this season it has changed, but its clear to move Mancini out was proved correct, and surely the evidence of those players performances last season is that we did have pretty much the right combo of players - unless of course you buy into the agenda from some of the 'neutral pundits that actually, considering all our spending we actually failed last season cos we should have won it by 10 points.

As for Kompany, I agree his performances are off, but to criticise a footballer for being arrogant - don't all successful sportspeople have plenty of that? Its not uncommon for a captain to praise those beneath him in the team, those who he has lead, in the aftermath of victory, so that they get the praise. In fact, its absolutely the expected thing to do.
 
can honestly say never been a fan of him,last year we only just won the league again even though every other team in the league were piss poor,this year again I think its a piss poor league ie we take the piss out of the rags for being really shite which they are but they are only 5 points behind us.Tactical wise he is clueless he never as a plan b and some basic errors,last season not going for the extra goal against Munich,not getting a 4th striker in the august window,all of his signing are hopeless apart from fernandinho imo and he is not very consistent.We have been really lucky this season with all the last minute goals and scrapping through the champs league.On a bright note I do have a funny feeling about the champs league u need luck to win it
 
bluemoon27 said:
can honestly say never been a fan of him,last year we only just won the league again even though every other team in the league were piss poor,this year again I think its a piss poor league ie we take the piss out of the rags for being really shite which they are but they are only 5 points behind us.Tactical wise he is clueless he never as a plan b and some basic errors,last season not going for the extra goal against Munich,not getting a 4th striker in the august window,all of his signing are hopeless apart from fernandinho imo and he is not very consistent.We have been really lucky this season with all the last minute goals and scrapping through the champs league.On a bright note I do have a funny feeling about the champs league u need luck to win it


How is it a piss poor league
 
grim up north said:
bluemoon27 said:
can honestly say never been a fan of him,last year we only just won the league again even though every other team in the league were piss poor,this year again I think its a piss poor league ie we take the piss out of the rags for being really shite which they are but they are only 5 points behind us.Tactical wise he is clueless he never as a plan b and some basic errors,last season not going for the extra goal against Munich,not getting a 4th striker in the august window,all of his signing are hopeless apart from fernandinho imo and he is not very consistent.We have been really lucky this season with all the last minute goals and scrapping through the champs league.On a bright note I do have a funny feeling about the champs league u need luck to win it


How is it a piss poor league

the standard of the football is piss poor,says it all when lower division sides are nowhere near as far away as they were 5 yrs ago,the gap used to be huge,do u think the rags have been awful all season cos most people do and they are 5 points behind us in 2nd and how many games do u think we have played well in this season
 
bluemoon27 said:
can honestly say never been a fan of him,last year we only just won the league again even though every other team in the league were piss poor,this year again I think its a piss poor league ie we take the piss out of the rags for being really shite which they are but they are only 5 points behind us.Tactical wise he is clueless he never as a plan b and some basic errors,last season not going for the extra goal against Munich,not getting a 4th striker in the august window,all of his signing are hopeless apart from fernandinho imo and he is not very consistent.We have been really lucky this season with all the last minute goals and scrapping through the champs league.On a bright note I do have a funny feeling about the champs league u need luck to win it


Just wow
 
Shaelumstash said:
The main criticism I had of Pellegrini after his first 3 months in charge is that he is not adaptable. He plays the same way, no matter who we are playing. It makes us predictable and easy to figure out for opposition managers. In fairness to him, when we were without a striker in December, he changed the make up of the team, adapted and we played well. Credit to him for that. But really we only changed out of necessity.

Yesterday against Hull, if Yaya was fit, is there any doubt in anyone's mind whatsoever that he would have started? It would probably have been a straight swap for Fernando. As I mentioned earlier, they couldn't really be more different as players. Except for both looking rather lethargic on occasions, Yaya dominates the ball, dictates play, powers through oppositions with his strength and power. Fernando trudges around the centre circle hoping nobody notices he's hiding.

Yet despite these differences in their style of play, Pellegrini will swap them, one for one and expect the same outcome. This is Hull at home, a relegation fighting team. Yaya would have dominated their midfield, we would have took the game to them. Instead we play the apparently defensive minded Fernando. Why? Lampard or Milner are both better on the ball than Fernando, more drive going forwards, better passers, Milner has a higher work rate, Lampard has a great eye for goal. Yet Fernando is picked. Why?

If we were playing Tottenham at home yesterday we'd have picked exactly the same starting line up as we did against Hull. This despite the fact Tottenham are a high pressing, front foot team who play 4 at the back. Hull are a lethargic, relegation threatened team play 3 at the back, which you would assume means we could do with some width and pace to exploit the space down their wings. But Navas, despite coming off the back of his best game for City, is on the bench. Why?

I think the answer to both questions is that Pellegrini doesn't even consider the characteristics of the other team. It's basically an irrelevance to him. He thinks as long as we have "trust" it will all work out in the end. I understand this may have been passed down from above as part of the "hollistic" approach. Well is you are Barcelona 2009-2012 which are probably the best team ever assembled, and you are playing in a league where realistically only two other teams have got any chance of giving you a game, it's fine to be arrogant enough to just stick to what you like and not consider the opposition. But this is the Premier League, the most competitive league in the world. Anyone can beat anyone, as is proven every single week.

You have to take in to account the strengths and weaknesses of other teams, the strengths and weaknesses of your team, and come up with a game plan for every single game in order to win it. Ferguson did this for years. He may have stuck to the same kind of ideals, but if a team had a slow fullback, you can guarantee he's play his quickest winger against him. Pellegrini doesn't look at the game like that.

Navas playing well against Chelsea wasn't by design. It was an accident of being the only right winger available. If Nasri had been fit, Navas probably wouldn't have been played. Navas should have started against Hull to expose the space down their channels. Lampard or Milner should have played instead of Fernando because our midfield should have been on the front foot, not sitting deep and defending against Hull. This is not some kind of specialist tactical insight, it's just common sense!

Whether these decisions are being made by Pellegrini, or above his head, one thing is for sure, with our strongest 11 available, we are good enough to stick to our favoured shape / way of playing and beat anyone in this league. But when that strongest 11 is not available, we have to adapt. We have to analyse our opponents, analyse who we have available, and figure out a game plan of how to win.

Winning is more important than being holistic.

The manager has had all season to come up with a cunning plan to cope without Yaya Toure for a handful of games and to keep the title bid on track. So what cunning plan did he come up with to overcome an extremely poor Hull side at home? Fernandinho alongside Fernando in an uninspiring midfield two severely lacking in creativity. A front two consisting of the underperforming and unfit Dzeko alongside an Aguero who's still struggling for fitness and form. The pacey Navas benched after probably his best game in a City shirt, alongside another one of the best performers against Chelsea in the dependable Milner. So no pace and no natural width, no creativity in centre mid, and a strikeforce struggling for fitness and form. As cunning plans go that's up there with anything Baldrick came up with in any of the series of Blackadder. Not good enough from Pellegrini yesterday by a long way, and two precious points needlessly blown. If we line up the same way against Stoke I think I'll spontaneously combust.
 
bluemoon27 said:
grim up north said:
bluemoon27 said:
can honestly say never been a fan of him,last year we only just won the league again even though every other team in the league were piss poor,this year again I think its a piss poor league ie we take the piss out of the rags for being really shite which they are but they are only 5 points behind us.Tactical wise he is clueless he never as a plan b and some basic errors,last season not going for the extra goal against Munich,not getting a 4th striker in the august window,all of his signing are hopeless apart from fernandinho imo and he is not very consistent.We have been really lucky this season with all the last minute goals and scrapping through the champs league.On a bright note I do have a funny feeling about the champs league u need luck to win it


How is it a piss poor league

the standard of the football is piss poor,says it all when lower division sides are nowhere near as far away as they were 5 yrs ago,the gap used to be huge,do u think the rags have been awful all season cos most people do and they are 5 points behind us in 2nd and how many games do u think we have played well in this season

So a competitive league is a piss poor league, the championship has become more competitive. We haven't played well on many occasions but what has that got to do with a piss poor league
 
hgblue said:
Shaelumstash said:
The main criticism I had of Pellegrini after his first 3 months in charge is that he is not adaptable. He plays the same way, no matter who we are playing. It makes us predictable and easy to figure out for opposition managers. In fairness to him, when we were without a striker in December, he changed the make up of the team, adapted and we played well. Credit to him for that. But really we only changed out of necessity.

Yesterday against Hull, if Yaya was fit, is there any doubt in anyone's mind whatsoever that he would have started? It would probably have been a straight swap for Fernando. As I mentioned earlier, they couldn't really be more different as players. Except for both looking rather lethargic on occasions, Yaya dominates the ball, dictates play, powers through oppositions with his strength and power. Fernando trudges around the centre circle hoping nobody notices he's hiding.

Yet despite these differences in their style of play, Pellegrini will swap them, one for one and expect the same outcome. This is Hull at home, a relegation fighting team. Yaya would have dominated their midfield, we would have took the game to them. Instead we play the apparently defensive minded Fernando. Why? Lampard or Milner are both better on the ball than Fernando, more drive going forwards, better passers, Milner has a higher work rate, Lampard has a great eye for goal. Yet Fernando is picked. Why?

If we were playing Tottenham at home yesterday we'd have picked exactly the same starting line up as we did against Hull. This despite the fact Tottenham are a high pressing, front foot team who play 4 at the back. Hull are a lethargic, relegation threatened team play 3 at the back, which you would assume means we could do with some width and pace to exploit the space down their wings. But Navas, despite coming off the back of his best game for City, is on the bench. Why?

I think the answer to both questions is that Pellegrini doesn't even consider the characteristics of the other team. It's basically an irrelevance to him. He thinks as long as we have "trust" it will all work out in the end. I understand this may have been passed down from above as part of the "hollistic" approach. Well is you are Barcelona 2009-2012 which are probably the best team ever assembled, and you are playing in a league where realistically only two other teams have got any chance of giving you a game, it's fine to be arrogant enough to just stick to what you like and not consider the opposition. But this is the Premier League, the most competitive league in the world. Anyone can beat anyone, as is proven every single week.

You have to take in to account the strengths and weaknesses of other teams, the strengths and weaknesses of your team, and come up with a game plan for every single game in order to win it. Ferguson did this for years. He may have stuck to the same kind of ideals, but if a team had a slow fullback, you can guarantee he's play his quickest winger against him. Pellegrini doesn't look at the game like that.

Navas playing well against Chelsea wasn't by design. It was an accident of being the only right winger available. If Nasri had been fit, Navas probably wouldn't have been played. Navas should have started against Hull to expose the space down their channels. Lampard or Milner should have played instead of Fernando because our midfield should have been on the front foot, not sitting deep and defending against Hull. This is not some kind of specialist tactical insight, it's just common sense!

Whether these decisions are being made by Pellegrini, or above his head, one thing is for sure, with our strongest 11 available, we are good enough to stick to our favoured shape / way of playing and beat anyone in this league. But when that strongest 11 is not available, we have to adapt. We have to analyse our opponents, analyse who we have available, and figure out a game plan of how to win.

Winning is more important than being holistic.

The manager has had all season to come up with a cunning plan to cope without Yaya Toure for a handful of games and to keep the title bid on track. So what cunning plan did he come up with to overcome an extremely poor Hull side at home? Fernandinho alongside Fernando in an uninspiring midfield two severely lacking in creativity. A front two consisting of the underperforming and unfit Dzeko alongside an Aguero who's still struggling for fitness and form. The pacey Navas benched after probably his best game in a City shirt, alongside another one of the best performers against Chelsea in the dependable Milner. So no pace and no natural width, no creativity in centre mid, and a strikeforce struggling for fitness and form. As cunning plans go that's up there with anything Baldrick came up with in any of the series of Blackadder. Not good enough from Pellegrini yesterday by a long way, and two precious points needlessly blown. If we line up the same way against Stoke I think I'll spontaneously combust.

Completely agree mate. The thing I find even more alarming is the fact that he, and the club wear the lack of a cunning plan on their chest like a badge of honour. "We concentrate on our own team, we don't adapt" one of the downsides of being holistic, unfortunately.
 
chesterbells said:
city91 said:
chesterbells said:
You mean by moving on Mancini and going on to win the league?

I mean by backing the players over the manager. You don't let the tail wag the dog and that's what we did. Also, as it stands we haven't really moved on in the sense that Pellers is having exactly the same post league win hangover as Mancini.

By all means sack the manager but don't let the players, who are just as responsible as the manager for poor performances, off scott free.

Kompany's post match interview after we won the league summed him up for the arrogant person that he is. When ever Souness or Neville praised Pellegrini, Kompany constantly shifted the praise onto the players. Funny how he never shifted the blame from Mancini's final season to the players wasn't it.

OK, but I'm still not sure I buy it. We have moved on in that we appointed a new manager, who then lead those players to another title. Yes, this season it has changed, but its clear to move Mancini out was proved correct, and surely the evidence of those players performances last season is that we did have pretty much the right combo of players - unless of course you buy into the agenda from some of the 'neutral pundits that actually, considering all our spending we actually failed last season cos we should have won it by 10 points.

As for Kompany, I agree his performances are off, but to criticise a footballer for being arrogant - don't all successful sportspeople have plenty of that? Its not uncommon for a captain to praise those beneath him in the team, those who he has lead, in the aftermath of victory, so that they get the praise. In fact, its absolutely the expected thing to do.

I don't actually disagree that getting rid of Mancini was the right move. It was just the influence that some players had in his departure which leaves a bad taste.

As you said, last season the players proved their worth. But don't forget they also proved their worth under Mancini until they decided they wanted him out.

Say a similar situation arises and the key players decide they want rid of Pellegrini, what do we do then? Because their performances this season suggest they are not totally convinced by him.

Its funny because if Pellegrini has 3 or 4 bad games people call for his head. But only Navas, Milner and Aguero can hold their heads high up high this season. The rest have ranged from shite to average.

This squad has achieved a lot but it is capable of reaching so much more. This squad is capable of walking a league title. This squad is capable of retaining the league title. And this squad is more than capable of at least reaching the quarters of the CL.

But for some reason it hasn't happened. If this was all under one manager then you could question him. But for this to happen under two totally different t managers asks the question of the players.
 
Many of us have commented on the fact that we are incredibly predictable in our style of play and that other managers now employ pretty much the same tactics when they come to us. That is to defend deep, close us down immediately and fill the box with players. It takes incredibly accurate passing to get through and most of the time all we can manage at best is to win a corner - and we all know how poor we are at those. It has been stated by a lot of people on here that we have no plan B and the only time we have changed our tactics was as a result of injuries meaning it was forced on us. Incidentally, that was our best run of the season. When Jimmy was pushed up front it gave us a level of unpredictability and we did well out of it.

I think the manager recognises we need an alternative and he has bought Bony who is good in the air. Shame he cant use him for another couple of weeks though.
 
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