Maradona, truly the best player on this planet so far

[mancitymick]

Messi by a country mile compared with the Drug taking effin cheat

 

[NICKS BACK]

If trophies and awards are you argument, then lets compare Messi's domestic and personal achievement too...

World Cups: Maradona 1 Messi 0
League Titles: Messi 6 Maradona 2
Copa Americas (One of your points): Messi & Maradona 0
Champions Leagues: Messi 3 Maradona 0
Uefa Cup: Maradona 1, Messi (Never played in the competition)
World Club Cup: Messi 2 Maradona (Never played in the competition)

World Player of the Year: Messi 4 Maradona 0

Yes these stats been nothing in comparison, but me it puts to the bed the bollocks of not winning a world cup.

I mean FFS, does that make Kleberson better than Messi because he won a World Cup?Does it fuck.

-- Tue May 28, 2013 4:45 am --



If you think Messi is playing in the same position and same style that he was when he was 17 then you are deluded. He was a rough diamond with pure potential when he started out but over the past 4/5 years he has been moulded into a powerhouse. Look at his goalscoring record and you'll see where he started to be moulded into the player he is now.

I've read more and watched more than most people I know on every player I mentioned. The age restriction of me not being able to see all these players live, restricts me to saying i'm only 99% certain Messi is the best player that has lived.

Trophies are not my only indicator. It is being able to win on the biggest occasion or at least drag your team as close as possible. Ronaldo has completely outperformed Messi with weaker Portugal teams and sometimes worst managers.

Maradona played with much, much weaker teams than Messi. How about we compare Messi with other players, who played with top teams.

How about we look at Di Steffano's record or Beckenbauer or Zidane or Xavi or Ronaldinho?

I think when Messi became more focused on scoring goals only and had the Barcelona team built around him it made the team as a whole less effective. Pele at 17 was a no where near the player he would later become.

The trophies aren't an important factor necessarily, you was the one mentioning World Cups won.

You could argue that the Barcelona team at the moment would be a much weaker team if it wasn't for Messi though. I'm also fairly certain Maradona wasn't playing in a shit Napoli side which won the league, they were in a bad patch admittedly but Napoli side was not weak!

When Maradona signed for Napoli it was a shock, but truly underwhelming, he went on to win the League in Italy in 87 and 90. The Argentina team that won the World Cup was a stellar collection of footballers, they truly cheated their way to the World Cup in 78'

Maradona's achievements will never be repeated, you do not win the Italian Championship twice with a team like Napoli by being inconsistent.

The truly great players peak when it matters, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldo, Puskas, Beckenbauer, Moore, Romario, Matthaus, all peaked at a World Cup, but Maradona's achievement was the greatest. Only Italy 82' and Spain stand out for the outstanding team rather than the outstanding player.

Maradona's World Cup winners medal is worth far more than all of Messi's Balon D'Or.

 

[billfromthehill]

Maradonna for me

 

[conormcfc]

Except I don't just keep going on about Maradona. I said I consider Pele the best ever and then was drawn in on comments about Messi being the best. It's not a question of being further along in their development. At the ages of 17/18 they already accomplished more in their international career than Messi has so far.

Queirroz was an awful manager, who pretty much parked the bus. Parking the bus with a team containing the attacking talent of Portugal is not good tactics. They conceded 1 goal, but apart from against North Korea, they didnt score a goal either.

Yes you are right they managed to beat Costa Rica to get through, which was the only game they won and Messi scored no goals.

They had, yeah. But they both played in far better international set-ups. And Messi has already surpassed both their club accomplishments at the age of 25 and me personally I consider years of club football over a month of internationals once every 4 years.

Messi's career for his club is not really much better than Pele's and we all know Ronaldo's career was wrecked by injury. Messi's internation set up being poor is a complete myth. With the players he has available he should be able to do better.

Those tactics employed by Queiroz were perfectly reasonable. The only way they'd beat top teams was by putting people behind the ball and playing on the counter. That's how they still set up now against the top sides and it's the best way to utilize their personnel. Bad tactics would've been to play an attacking formation against Spain. Maradona should've took a leaf out of his book, as opposed to the all out attack approach he adopted that was doomed for failure. There's no comparison between the 2 managers in terms of abilty to organize or ability to actually select a team.

No Portugal managed to get to the semi final in 06 and lost on penalties against Spain in the Euro's with the same group of players. The Portugal team would have been better attacking. His record as manager was terrible.
Quierroz is currently in Iran I think, which says a lot.

Again, it's sort of hard to have much affect when your team is devoid of any sort of balance or platform for the better players to perform. Look at his form since that tournament, they seem to have found a proper system now and he's scoring plenty.

Let's see what happens when they reach a tournament again. Other plays have achieved more with weaker set ups.

I have already explained why Argentina's set up has been so poor. If you want to ignore everything and go back to square 1 because there's nothing left to argue on the contrary then fair enough, but don't expect me to go through it again.

The 06' Portugal team was a completely different group with 4 or 5 senior players still running the show, it wasn't even Ronaldo's team. The last Euro's they were still playing the same counter attacking style that they had played under Queiroz and with similar results.

 

[Bilboblue]

For those talking about how Maradona used to get 'kicked to bits' I suggest you watch more of La Liga and see the treatment Messi gets subjected to, yet he never whines and moans and rolls around on the floor, he gets up and gets on with destroying the teams facing him.

Maradona was a great.

Messi is better.

Hmm .... Is he getting tackled like this?

<a class="postlink" href="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEbB78GLyA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEbB78GLyA</a>

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asq2vGsOHIU[/youtube]

0.39, 0.45, 0.58, 1.04, 2.00, 2.34 (Actually a stamp off the ball), 2.44, 3.30 (4 players go for him).

Football may be less dangerous than it use to, but Messi's had his fair share. Tbh i'm surprised that he hasn't suffered a more major injury.

Heres another showing how much he gets fouled and gets on with it:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwF3oxvh3DI[/youtube]

Top man :o)

 

[conormcfc]

The truly great players peak when it matters, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldo, Puskas, Beckenbauer, Moore, Romario, Matthaus, all peaked at a World Cup, but Maradona's achievement was the greatest. Only Italy 82' and Spain stand out for the outstanding team rather than the outstanding player.

Maradona's World Cup winners medal is worth far more than all of Messi's Balon D'Or.

A brilliant piece of logic, which would see Fabio Grosso rated higher than Maldini.

is Grosso 'truly great'?

 

[Bilboblue]

The truly great players peak when it matters, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldo, Puskas, Beckenbauer, Moore, Romario, Matthaus, all peaked at a World Cup, but Maradona's achievement was the greatest. Only Italy 82' and Spain stand out for the outstanding team rather than the outstanding player.

Maradona's World Cup winners medal is worth far more than all of Messi's Balon D'Or.

A brilliant piece of logic, which would see Fabio Grosso rated higher than Maldini.

is Grosso 'truly great'?

Well, well, well who'd have ever thought Franck LeBouef was better than Messi !!!!!

 

[conormcfc]

The truly great players peak when it matters, Pele, Cruyff, Zidane, Ronaldo, Puskas, Beckenbauer, Moore, Romario, Matthaus, all peaked at a World Cup, but Maradona's achievement was the greatest. Only Italy 82' and Spain stand out for the outstanding team rather than the outstanding player.

Maradona's World Cup winners medal is worth far more than all of Messi's Balon D'Or.

A brilliant piece of logic, which would see Fabio Grosso rated higher than Maldini.

is Grosso 'truly great'?

Well, well, well who'd have ever thought Franck LeBouef was better than Messi !!!!!

Always thought Bebeto was better than Van Basten.

 

[Deleted member 52846]

The best player ever is Pele. He was more complete than Maradona and had the habit of pulling out the spectacular more often. The man was scoring wonder goals at the world cup final when he was 17. This is astonishing. Just think about that level of brlliance. When Messi was just making his professional debut, Pele was already staring in a world cup final. He is a bitter man now, but I understand why. He does not get the respect he deserves.

As for Mess he does not deserve to be amongst the best until he achieves something at the highest level with Argentina. He has not even won a Copa America with them. At their best I dont think Messi is better than Zidane or Ronaldinho let alone Maradona and Pele. Times have changed and players can play at their peak much longer. Guys like Gomez can get 47 goals in a season in 18 team league.

Also Messi is better than Cristiano Ronaldo, but it is not by any big gap. Last season Ronaldo was better than Messi. Funny how nobody puts Ronaldo anywhere hear as high as Messi.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biz8EEjE_aI[/youtube]

 

[Bill]

Messi is FAR better than that cheating twunt.

correct.