Mario Car Crash

[didactic]

So seen as we have found a bit of common ground and I take your point about Silva fall from grace over the second half of the season.

Playing devil's advocate, in the event next season we finish just short and Mario again misses large chunks of the season due to his behavour imposed by referess and managers alike and he again finishes top of the secondary list for player of the season. Would that be ok? Are would we be better buying a player displaying more responsibility and risk losing out on a player who is capable of being so much more?

He could just as easily be more mature and decide to score 40 for the season.

 

[franksinatra]

So seen as we have found a bit of common ground and I take your point about Silva fall from grace over the second half of the season.

Playing devil's advocate, in the event next season we finish just short and Mario again misses large chunks of the season due to his behavour imposed by referess and managers alike and he again finishes top of the secondary list for player of the season. Would that be ok? Are would we be better buying a player displaying more responsibility and risk losing out on a player who is capable of being so much more?

He could just as easily be more mature and decide to score 40 for the season.

Thats true but do we remove the risk and buy someone without the accompanying problems?

 

[Skashion]

No my point is you make a comparison to RVP who has played infinitely more games and scored more goals but choose to ignore comparisons with players like Papa Cisse and Pogbrenyak. Its a distortion of statistics to suit your argument, highlighting the futility of the comparison. I would imagine Aguero would have better stats if he wasn't looking as weary due to carrying the burden of our attack for a banned Mario and out of form Dzeko.

As I tried to point out using statistics you could argue he is one goal better than Grant Holt and as didatic pointed out he is outscoring Torres, stats can be misleading. Hence I judge a player on his performances aswell.

Yes Mario is fantsatic at penalties but does not justify his place in the team, when players like Aguero, Milner etc are also excellent at penalties as you recognise.

I think he could and should have done more this season. As I have indiscated using the player of the season analogy. Where would he be on your list of player of the season?

I'm trying to arguing stats with someone who says twice as many is 'infinite'. God help me.

 

[didactic]

So seen as we have found a bit of common ground and I take your point about Silva fall from grace over the second half of the season.

Playing devil's advocate, in the event next season we finish just short and Mario again misses large chunks of the season due to his behavour imposed by referess and managers alike and he again finishes top of the secondary list for player of the season. Would that be ok? Are would we be better buying a player displaying more responsibility and risk losing out on a player who is capable of being so much more?

He could just as easily be more mature and decide to score 40 for the season.

Thats true but do we remove the risk and buy someone without the accompanying problems?

No because these "problems" are being super inflated how many games has he missed really? Also Mario is now taking the flack for Tevez and his absence. The season was planned for four strikers so we take his 15 goals and add another 10 from whoever should have been there and we are top of the league. Even with his missed games so no I dont think you get rid of such a talent.

 

[franksinatra]

No my point is you make a comparison to RVP who has played infinitely more games and scored more goals but choose to ignore comparisons with players like Papa Cisse and Pogbrenyak. Its a distortion of statistics to suit your argument, highlighting the futility of the comparison. I would imagine Aguero would have better stats if he wasn't looking as weary due to carrying the burden of our attack for a banned Mario and out of form Dzeko.

As I tried to point out using statistics you could argue he is one goal better than Grant Holt and as didatic pointed out he is outscoring Torres, stats can be misleading. Hence I judge a player on his performances aswell.

Yes Mario is fantsatic at penalties but does not justify his place in the team, when players like Aguero, Milner etc are also excellent at penalties as you recognise.

I think he could and should have done more this season. As I have indiscated using the player of the season analogy. Where would he be on your list of player of the season?

I'm trying to arguing stats with someone who says twice as many is 'infinite'. God help me.

Good point but the fact remains, you have selectively compared players and your fact, he has the best goals per minute ratio was incorrect. Anyway its not an argument its a discussion :-)

 

[franksinatra]

He could just as easily be more mature and decide to score 40 for the season.

Thats true but do we remove the risk and buy someone without the accompanying problems?

No because these "problems" are being super inflated how many games has he missed really? Also Mario is now taking the flack for Tevez and his absence. The season was planned for four strikers so we take his 15 goals and add another 10 from whoever should have been there and we are top of the league. Even with his missed games so no I dont think you get rid of such a talent.

I think he missed 16 games through disciplinary problems. Mancini stated the other day he missed the first six games of the season due to his behaviour. Seven league games for the sending off and retrospective ban and three from the Europa ban from last year, carrying over to the Champs lge. Completely agree with the Tevez situation, that has certainly not helped and probably has been instrumental in the wearines of Aguero and Silva, the former on the back of a Copa America during the summer. Other players should be chipping in with more goals also, particularly Silva when you consider the number of simple chances he has missed.

 

[didactic]

I think he missed 16 games through disciplinary problems. Mancini stated the other day he missed the first six games of the season due to his behaviour. Seven league games for the sending off and retrospective ban and three from the Europa ban from last year, carrying over to the Champs lge. Completely agree with the Tevez situation, that has certainly not helped and probably has been instrumental in the wearines of Aguero and Silva, the former on the back of a Copa America during the summer. Other players should be chipping in with more goals also, particularly Silva when you consider the number of simple chances he has missed.

No he did not miss 16 games due to disciplinary problems. He was banned for 4 games as I recall and missed 3 CL games.

Frank I work for a bank and it is very much comparable to football. It is all about results noone cares about anything else but the bottom line. Mario delivers which is why you see him week in week out when fit, he plays.

So for management to allow this is because they have faith in his ability to deliver this is the highest level of football we play at. Not some mickey mouse league and Mario is topping the goals in such a league. A goal a game is delivering and his contract if he was a banker would be renewed because he gets results.

Thats the bottom line everything else is meaningless. This is also why you see Tevez in the squad he delivers.

 

[Skashion]

Good point but the fact remains, you have selectively compared players and your fact, he has the best goals per minute ratio was incorrect. Anyway its not an argument its a discussion :-)

Alright, Cisse is. On the stats site I use 500 mins is the lowest they use and Cisse has only just crossed that barrier with 504 mins. That said the margin of error at 500 mins is far higher versus 1250 than 1250 vs 2500, not just because there is a greater percentage difference but because margins of error exhibit a exponential relationship versus sample size.

Pogrebnyak is not ahead of Mario anyway, so I don't know why you're using that one against him.

Where would Mario be on player of the season? Out of my first XI, somewhere in the middle I'd imagine. I don't class him as one of our key players which to my mind are; Hart; Kompany; Yaya; and Silva.

 

[franksinatra]

I think he missed 16 games through disciplinary problems. Mancini stated the other day he missed the first six games of the season due to his behaviour. Seven league games for the sending off and retrospective ban and three from the Europa ban from last year, carrying over to the Champs lge. Completely agree with the Tevez situation, that has certainly not helped and probably has been instrumental in the wearines of Aguero and Silva, the former on the back of a Copa America during the summer. Other players should be chipping in with more goals also, particularly Silva when you consider the number of simple chances he has missed.

No he did not miss 16 games due to disciplinary problems. He was banned for 4 games as I recall and missed 3 CL games.

Frank I work for a bank and it is very much comparable to football. It is all about results noone cares about anything else but the bottom line. Mario delivers which is why you see him week in week out when fit, he plays.

So for management to allow this is because they have faith in his ability to deliver this is the highest level of football we play at. Not some mickey mouse league and Mario is topping the goals in such a league. A goal a game is delivering and his contract if he was a banker would be renewed because he gets results.

Thats the bottom line everything else is meaningless. This is also why you see Tevez in the squad he delivers.

Did he not get sent off against Liverpool three game ban and then the Parker incident another four game ban, plus Europa, so that is ten without including the Manicini ban.

I have mixed views I can see both sides of the argument. As you say the bottom line is to deliver. A number of people comment how can we finish behind United with the players we have, for me I put it down to mentality and working for the collective good. Mario regularly missing is not beneficial to the team and I wonder if he considers this during his bouts of petulance.

Similarly he can score wonderful goals from nothing and his ability to expoilt a high defence through intelligent runs is world class. I suppose that is what makes him such an engaging player

 

[didactic]

I think he missed 16 games through disciplinary problems. Mancini stated the other day he missed the first six games of the season due to his behaviour. Seven league games for the sending off and retrospective ban and three from the Europa ban from last year, carrying over to the Champs lge. Completely agree with the Tevez situation, that has certainly not helped and probably has been instrumental in the wearines of Aguero and Silva, the former on the back of a Copa America during the summer. Other players should be chipping in with more goals also, particularly Silva when you consider the number of simple chances he has missed.

No he did not miss 16 games due to disciplinary problems. He was banned for 4 games as I recall and missed 3 CL games.

Frank I work for a bank and it is very much comparable to football. It is all about results noone cares about anything else but the bottom line. Mario delivers which is why you see him week in week out when fit, he plays.

So for management to allow this is because they have faith in his ability to deliver this is the highest level of football we play at. Not some mickey mouse league and Mario is topping the goals in such a league. A goal a game is delivering and his contract if he was a banker would be renewed because he gets results.

Thats the bottom line everything else is meaningless. This is also why you see Tevez in the squad he delivers.

Did he not get sent off against Liverpool three game ban and then the Parker incident another four game ban, plus Europa, so that is ten without including the Manicini ban.

I have mixed views I can see both sides of the argument. As you say the bottom line is to deliver. A number of people comment how can we finish behind United with the players we have, for me I put it down to mentality and working for the collective good. Mario regularly missing is not beneficial to the team and I wonder if he considers this during his bouts of petulance.

Similarly he can score wonderful goals from nothing and his ability to expoilt a high defence through intelligent runs is world class. I suppose that is what makes him such an engaging player

Thing is we wouldnt be second without Mario look at world class strikers like Torres who have lost form. Saurez all not delivering, Berbatov that is why strikers are so expensive and so valued. Dont take what he does for granted the guy is an enigma but a footballing genius.