Tackling is not akin to breathing.MaineRoadBlue said:KippaxCitizen said:Good post.
I also think Demichelis was doing wrong himself in the run up to the incident. He went wandering off aimlessly forward without any communication with Vincent (also something that was a mistake on Vincent's part as he didn't communicate with Demichelis neither). He got drawn into the man with the ball, then realised he was doing the wrong thing and started getting back.
Also Clichy was at fault as he was far too high up the pitch and he was the one who could see right along the line, he could see the whole thing, and yet he didn't communicate with anybody.
Also Joe Hart could see the whole thing, he didn't communicate with anybody neither.
Include Navas' - who I don't think was fouled - poor play and you've got SIX players who were doing something wrong in the run up to that incident. All were at fault.
It doesn't mean Demichelis should have brought Messi down. That was probably the last thing he should have done of all options available.
He was having a reasonable game up to then but his passing was abysmal throughout the game.
I think what gets on people's nerves is his previous. Sunderland away he cost us the defeat from a defensive point of view; he's been at fault for goals at Fulham, at home to Cardiff, chance of a winner for Norwich that they didn't take; has also been very poor in a few games.
It's the accumulation of mistakes and poor performances that lead people to dismantle players. It's harsh but people like to air frustrations so it's going to happen.
If we weren't aiming to be the best team in the world I don't think it would happen to the degree it does. But we are. And that makes people far more expectant and critical of players in what they bring to us.
Oh my God, are you for real! Demichelis is a defender and that was a split second, natural and instinctive decision that made him react to challenge Messi, almost akin to pulling your hand away from a hot iron. It just happens, before your mind even realises.
Do you seriously believe, with his heart probably beating around 180 beats a minute and in the blink of an eye he can override natural reaction and not make that challenge?
If you do, and anyone else who does is utterly clueless about football.
the old abbey said:Dear stevie.i promise to try a liccle bit hardor during arf term to try and show some love to mdm.dont fink it will change the fact that he aint goid enough. Au revoir mdm lovechilds.love u all.
NMB said:The anti MD posters on here are being conned by the anti City media. Can anybody really give an example of a defender who is behind a forward heading for goal not attempting a desperate tackle? To stand by and watch him score and then say to your team mates, "I thought it best that we retain a full quota on the field for the remainder of the game" is just completely alien. Remember Vinny against Wolves 2 years ago? Journalists writing the headlines blaming MD know this, but they have seen an angle to go at which is far more pleasing to them. This will snowball to the extent that people will believe that a man with umpteen caps for Argentina, 8 years and countless medals with Bayern Munich and in the La Liga team of the year last season , really is useless (I have seen this with my own eyes - two lads next to me on tuesday were discussing how bad he is before the game and then watching every move he made for evidence to prove it). I can only hope that he ends the season , as I believe he will, with 3 medals at least.
Good luck to you Martin.
All three defenders except Vinny were perfectly on line .KippaxCitizen said:Good post.zabadabadoo1985 said:There has to be a touch of balance in respect of MDM. Clearly he was short term stop gap since Real wouldn't sell us Pepe and Mangala won't be coming until the summer. He hasn't been great by any stretch of the imagination but some of the bile on here against, less we forget, a guy playing for our club is ridiculous.
In respect of the 53 minutes on the pitch against Barca, distribution aside, he was tactically and technically perfect, making over 15 key interceptions. From a tactical point of view, especially against Barca, MDM and VK were the perfect combination. The plan was to try and press Barca at the right times and MDM was key to this as evidenced by the number of crucial interceptions he made. This was not a fluke/accident! Additionally, if he missed any of these interceptions (which he didn't), we had our best central defender, VK, acting as a protective sweeper. This combination is not too dissimilar to the way Ferdinand and Vidic played in their pomp. Without MDM, VK would have had to taken the primary role of interceptor, for this particular game, with Lescott sweeping behind, which just wouldn't work. Lescott is not adept enough from a football ability to do the interceptor role against a team like Barca especially as distribution needs to be quick and accurate on interception. Moreover, we all know VK has a tendency to rush in when taking on this role as evidenced by his sendings off against United in the 2012 FA Cup and in the Arsenal away game last year. Subsequently, with such a fussy referee in charge of the Barca game, this would have been an extremely high risk.
Finally, what no one seems to have mention is that there were three more culpable people in the run up to the sending off. Firstly, Navas, for assuming the ref would blow for barely a touch. Two, Zabba actually stopped, thinking we would get a free kick, leaving him on his heels and giving Iniesta an extra moment to decide what to do. Andres Iniesta really doesn't need such a gift! Finally, Vinnie was too slow in stepping up. Maybe he got spooked because it was Messi, but if he had the courage of his convictions Messi would have been offside and MDM wouldn't have made the challenge. Anyway coulda woulda shoulda.
To conclude, yes he has made mistakes, but tell me which of our defenders haven't. But to dismantle him as a player when the press are already doing that is a discredit to the manager who brought him in and real isn't very productive. And let's face it for a guy coming into the premier league cold, hasn't done a bad job thus far. The fact that most of us are almost bankrupt due to the number of games we have played by being in all four competitions is a testament to that. I could say a lot more about MP on here, the majority of which is positive, but that is for the MP thread.
I also think Demichelis was doing wrong himself in the run up to the incident. He went wandering off aimlessly forward without any communication with Vincent (also something that was a mistake on Vincent's part as he didn't communicate with Demichelis neither). He got drawn into the man with the ball, then realised he was doing the wrong thing and started getting back.
Also Clichy was at fault as he was far too high up the pitch and he was the one who could see right along the line, he could see the whole thing, and yet he didn't communicate with anybody.
Also Joe Hart could see the whole thing, he didn't communicate with anybody neither.
Include Navas' - who I don't think was fouled - poor play and you've got SIX players who were doing something wrong in the run up to that incident. All were at fault.
It doesn't mean Demichelis should have brought Messi down. That was probably the last thing he should have done of all options available.
He was having a reasonable game up to then but his passing was abysmal throughout the game.
I think what gets on people's nerves is his previous. Sunderland away he cost us the defeat from a defensive point of view; he's been at fault for goals at Fulham, at home to Cardiff, chance of a winner for Norwich that they didn't take; has also been very poor in a few games.
It's the accumulation of mistakes and poor performances that lead people to dismantle players. It's harsh but people like to air frustrations so it's going to happen.
If we weren't aiming to be the best team in the world I don't think it would happen to the degree it does. But we are. And that makes people far more expectant and critical of players in what they bring to us.
pudge said:Tackling is not akin to breathing.MaineRoadBlue said:KippaxCitizen said:Good post.
I also think Demichelis was doing wrong himself in the run up to the incident. He went wandering off aimlessly forward without any communication with Vincent (also something that was a mistake on Vincent's part as he didn't communicate with Demichelis neither). He got drawn into the man with the ball, then realised he was doing the wrong thing and started getting back.
Also Clichy was at fault as he was far too high up the pitch and he was the one who could see right along the line, he could see the whole thing, and yet he didn't communicate with anybody.
Also Joe Hart could see the whole thing, he didn't communicate with anybody neither.
Include Navas' - who I don't think was fouled - poor play and you've got SIX players who were doing something wrong in the run up to that incident. All were at fault.
It doesn't mean Demichelis should have brought Messi down. That was probably the last thing he should have done of all options available.
He was having a reasonable game up to then but his passing was abysmal throughout the game.
I think what gets on people's nerves is his previous. Sunderland away he cost us the defeat from a defensive point of view; he's been at fault for goals at Fulham, at home to Cardiff, chance of a winner for Norwich that they didn't take; has also been very poor in a few games.
It's the accumulation of mistakes and poor performances that lead people to dismantle players. It's harsh but people like to air frustrations so it's going to happen.
If we weren't aiming to be the best team in the world I don't think it would happen to the degree it does. But we are. And that makes people far more expectant and critical of players in what they bring to us.
Oh my God, are you for real! Demichelis is a defender and that was a split second, natural and instinctive decision that made him react to challenge Messi, almost akin to pulling your hand away from a hot iron. It just happens, before your mind even realises.
Do you seriously believe, with his heart probably beating around 180 beats a minute and in the blink of an eye he can override natural reaction and not make that challenge?
If you do, and anyone else who does is utterly clueless about football.
He made a decision, knowing if he got it wrong he'd be off. He's chased after him and then brought him down, it was not an instinctive reaction.
Demichelis himself has even publicly questioned why he made the decision to bring him down.