Martin Demichelis

[skybluepete]

Hmmm did Vinnie make a mistake coz he was doing Demichelis job??

Where was he for the sunderland goal? Completey lost for pace and was in no mans land once Kompany was beaten!!!

Do you really think he did well and that Lescott would not have been better?

Did he actually win a header???

First of all he won plenty of headers.

Secondly Borini makes his original run behind Demichelis and with Kompany being slightly behind plays him on (not that we were trying to keep him offside) so he follows the run.

Now we can all question whether he should have been in a better position to cover Komps but if Komps either clears the ball properly or doesnt even make a challenge and just shepherds Borini down the line there is no goal.

At times in the second half they both took wild swipes at the ball which resulted in it being given away cheaply, however Tyler and Neville only decided to highlight Demichelis' error. It was the right choice to play him in this game ahead of Lescott.

All our centre halves have made mistakes this season yet everyone is over Demichelis' straight away.

I agree that vinnie should have done better but i just think that your defensive partner should always be thinking " what if " and TRY to be one step ahead, on Sunday i think in my opinion MD could have anticipated the danger of vinnie getting beat better than what he did thats all.

I have said this hundreds of times , i dont think MD is rubbish, far from it, my opinion is i would rather have lescott, i just trust him as a defender more than i do MD and when i watch both partnerships , vinnie seems more at ease when lescott is playing .
MD was possibly top drawer but he's at the latter end of his carreer playing in an unforgiving premier league for the first time ever and was, if were all honest bought to cover injury to vinnie.
I think we all agree come the summer we need to buy a real quality c/h to play alongside vinnie, would love that player to be rekik but maybe not ready yet.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I'd go further and say that I think Vinnie has also perhaps started to believe that his defensive partners are the weak links and trying too hard to show how good he is and how he's number one and on occasion, like Borini on Sunday, trying to patrol the back line as if we play one centre back.

I think this has lead to Vinnie making more mistakes (Barca, Sunderland) but because he's Vinnie Demi gets the blame for it, despite the fact that I think Vinnie should be leaving Demi to his half of the backline and covering, which if he'd done that on sunday he'd have intercepted Borini cleanly.

I think Vinnie was poor on Sunday with that mistake and his passing which put us into trouble, I think Demi is being made to be the scapegoat because people are refusing to accept or understand the reasons why Lescott isn't in the team, because they don't dare to criticise Vinnie and partly because I think a few people still want a stick to even indirectly beat Ferran and Txiki with and not paying over the odds for a CB is now an excuse to do so.

All that aside I think even Vinnie is making too many individual mistakes for a world class CB, he needs to control that impulse he has of going off and trying to do his own thing as opposed to sticking to what we do as a team.

Anyway this is a thread about Demi so I'll leave it there.

 

[Ronnie the Rep]

Did he actually win a header???

Yep, he won a total of six aerial duels. Now you may want to go through the game and come back here to dispute that, or you may just have to accept that you're not watching the game closely enough. Nothing wrong with criticism when due, but not noticing one header won when there were in fact six, is very short-sighted at best.

Agreed, I was sat close to the half way line and I thought he did very well with headers

 

[skybluepete]

I'd go further and say that I think Vinnie has also perhaps started to believe that his defensive partners are the weak links and trying too hard to show how good he is and how he's number one and on occasion, like Borini on Sunday, trying to patrol the back line as if we play one centre back.

I think this has lead to Vinnie making more mistakes (Barca, Sunderland) but because he's Vinnie Demi gets the blame for it, despite the fact that I think Vinnie should be leaving Demi to his half of the backline and covering, which if he'd done that on sunday he'd have intercepted Borini cleanly.

I think Vinnie was poor on Sunday with that mistake and his passing which put us into trouble, I think Demi is being made to be the scapegoat because people are refusing to accept or understand the reasons why Lescott isn't in the team, because they don't dare to criticise Vinnie and partly because I think a few people still want a stick to even indirectly beat Ferran and Txiki with and not paying over the odds for a CB is now an excuse to do so.

All that aside I think even Vinnie is making too many individual mistakes for a world class CB, he needs to control that impulse he has of going off and trying to do his own thing as opposed to sticking to what we do as a team.

Anyway this is a thread about Demi so I'll leave it there.

Off the topic of MD a little but we would be in very deep s--t without vinnie make no mistake about that, he's playing alongside MD he will kno better than anyone .
Keeping clean sheets for the defence and goalkeeper is very important to them and probably the way we are now playing he is trying his hardest and over working to try and not concede- its frustrating as a captain and defender to not keep clean sheets and tbf he is used to keeping clean sheets over the last few seasons .

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I'd go further and say that I think Vinnie has also perhaps started to believe that his defensive partners are the weak links and trying too hard to show how good he is and how he's number one and on occasion, like Borini on Sunday, trying to patrol the back line as if we play one centre back.

I think this has lead to Vinnie making more mistakes (Barca, Sunderland) but because he's Vinnie Demi gets the blame for it, despite the fact that I think Vinnie should be leaving Demi to his half of the backline and covering, which if he'd done that on sunday he'd have intercepted Borini cleanly.

I think Vinnie was poor on Sunday with that mistake and his passing which put us into trouble, I think Demi is being made to be the scapegoat because people are refusing to accept or understand the reasons why Lescott isn't in the team, because they don't dare to criticise Vinnie and partly because I think a few people still want a stick to even indirectly beat Ferran and Txiki with and not paying over the odds for a CB is now an excuse to do so.

All that aside I think even Vinnie is making too many individual mistakes for a world class CB, he needs to control that impulse he has of going off and trying to do his own thing as opposed to sticking to what we do as a team.

Anyway this is a thread about Demi so I'll leave it there.

Off the topic of MD a little but we would be in very deep s--t without vinnie make no mistake about that, he's playing alongside MD he will kno better than anyone .
Keeping clean sheets for the defence and goalkeeper is very important to them and probably the way we are now playing he is trying his hardest and over working to try and not concede- its frustrating as a captain and defender to not keep clean sheets and tbf he is used to keeping clean sheets over the last few seasons .

Yeah I know, Vinnie on form is exceptional and its testament to the high standards he sets that when he's a bit below par it's that noticeable.

 

[blue since 69]

The fact is the guy is to slow even if he can read a match and anticipate the opposition.

 

[Ballymagash Blue]

Just finished watching a full re-run of the 90 mins. Impossible to say MDM had anything other than a very solid game. Dominant in the air, neat in possession, some excellent interceptions (including one that led to a period of sustained pressure and from which Yaya scored).

Any defender would suffer from our high-line / offside trap. The criticism is way over the top. Pundits are afraid they'll look stupid if they don't jump on the MDM bashing bandwagon. If you look at our results with MDM in the team at centre back, they're rather impressive. I'm glad we have him.

 

[pee dubya]

Just finished watching a full re-run of the 90 mins. Impossible to say MDM had anything other than a very solid game. Dominant in the air, neat in possession, some excellent interceptions (including one that led to a period of sustained pressure and from which Yaya scored).

Any defender would suffer from our high-line / offside trap. The criticism is way over the top. Pundits are afraid they'll look stupid if they don't jump on the MDM bashing bandwagon. If you look at our results with MDM in the team at centre back, they're rather impressive. I'm glad we have him.

I totally agree, he obviously has the odd clanger in him, but overall his contribution has been positive, I don't get why everyone is focussing on the negative side of his game.

I reckon the reason he's being picked is partly because he's actually willing to play a style that benefits the team rather than making himself look good. Sure he's not ideal for playing a high line and squeezing up, but neither is anyone else in the squad, except Kompany. If he played to try and mask his weaknesses like most defenders of his age and type would, he'd be playing the exact opposite of the way Pellegrini wants us to defend.

I don't believe Pellegrini would pick favourites for the sake of it, such an experienced manager. He's picking MDM because he does what he's told. Its a high risk style of defending, and not one we're used to watching, that's why everyone's wringing their hands but it's designed to benefit our attacking play rather than purely to keep clean sheets.

 

[steviemc]

The fact is the guy is to slow even if he can read a match and anticipate the opposition.

I don't think anybody has disputed that. A defender that hasn't got great pace needs to rely on awareness and positioning to deal with potential problems. Defensive pace coming back towards goal has been exposed more this season, especially when we're playing higher up the pitch.

It's a system that will expose the slightest error from a defender. however we currently feel that the benefits outweigh the risks, so until we have replacements it's something we'll have to live with. It's a system they're learning, and I don't think anybody playing alongside Vinny has felt comfortable - even the great man himself has been caught out a few times.

I personally think that MDM is following Pellers instructions and doing a decent job.

 

[sir baconface]

Just finished watching a full re-run of the 90 mins. Impossible to say MDM had anything other than a very solid game. Dominant in the air, neat in possession, some excellent interceptions (including one that led to a period of sustained pressure and from which Yaya scored).

Any defender would suffer from our high-line / offside trap. The criticism is way over the top. Pundits are afraid they'll look stupid if they don't jump on the MDM bashing bandwagon. If you look at our results with MDM in the team at centre back, they're rather impressive. I'm glad we have him.

There were even posters on the rag caf match thread saying the same. Now I wouldn't normally hold that place up as a font of footballing knowledge. My point is it's so blatant that even they feel moved to comment.

 

[cleavers]

I'd go further and say that I think Vinnie has also perhaps started to believe that his defensive partners are the weak links and trying too hard to show how good he is and how he's number one and on occasion, like Borini on Sunday, trying to patrol the back line as if we play one centre back.

I think this has lead to Vinnie making more mistakes (Barca, Sunderland) but because he's Vinnie Demi gets the blame for it, despite the fact that I think Vinnie should be leaving Demi to his half of the backline and covering, which if he'd done that on sunday he'd have intercepted Borini cleanly.

I think Vinnie was poor on Sunday with that mistake and his passing which put us into trouble, I think Demi is being made to be the scapegoat because people are refusing to accept or understand the reasons why Lescott isn't in the team, because they don't dare to criticise Vinnie and partly because I think a few people still want a stick to even indirectly beat Ferran and Txiki with and not paying over the odds for a CB is now an excuse to do so.

All that aside I think even Vinnie is making too many individual mistakes for a world class CB, he needs to control that impulse he has of going off and trying to do his own thing as opposed to sticking to what we do as a team.

Anyway this is a thread about Demi so I'll leave it there.

I agree with much of what you say. MD seems to get stick for every goal we concede, and even got stick when we didn't concede against Norwich, for me he's done OK this season, he's made errors of course, but so have all the defenders.

That said for much of the first half we were 244 against Sunderland, little surprise that we looked vulnerable defensively.

 

[lasereyes]

I'd go further and say that I think Vinnie has also perhaps started to believe that his defensive partners are the weak links and trying too hard to show how good he is and how he's number one and on occasion, like Borini on Sunday, trying to patrol the back line as if we play one centre back.

I think this has lead to Vinnie making more mistakes (Barca, Sunderland) but because he's Vinnie Demi gets the blame for it, despite the fact that I think Vinnie should be leaving Demi to his half of the backline and covering, which if he'd done that on sunday he'd have intercepted Borini cleanly.

I think Vinnie was poor on Sunday with that mistake and his passing which put us into trouble, I think Demi is being made to be the scapegoat because people are refusing to accept or understand the reasons why Lescott isn't in the team, because they don't dare to criticise Vinnie and partly because I think a few people still want a stick to even indirectly beat Ferran and Txiki with and not paying over the odds for a CB is now an excuse to do so.

All that aside I think even Vinnie is making too many individual mistakes for a world class CB, he needs to control that impulse he has of going off and trying to do his own thing as opposed to sticking to what we do as a team.

Anyway this is a thread about Demi so I'll leave it there.

I agree with much of what you say. MD seems to get stick for every goal we concede, and even got stick when we didn't concede against Norwich, for me he's done OK this season, he's made errors of course, but so have all the defenders.

That said for much of the first half we were 244 against Sunderland, little surprise that we looked vulnerable defensively.

We were really only exposed once (the goal). The one where Vinnie cleared should never have been as it was clear offside, not given.

 

[MC ID]

I got so angry in a match day thread I called him a rag... Thought I'd just confess that now and take the punishment like a man.

In any case we need to get a true world class partner for Kompany next season, the fact we've got a piece of silverware for the season seems to have really mellowed me out.

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

Fortunately this clown won't be anywhere near the team in the away leg at Barca next week.

 

[Rösler von Stretfordbömber]

Rated the 5th best player on the club here:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/167</a>

Obviously that is rubbish. All of these football rating services have their deficiencies and can spit out completely screwy results (like England's squad being ranked higher than Brazil by FIFA for a lot of last year, Switzerland being rated 6th right now, etc.)

The point I would make is that the guy is not completely unsuited to be in the team and utterly hopeless when you take into account the wide variety of statistics that whoscored uses. (Headers won, key clearances, errors leading to goals, etc etc etc etc.)

Also, Lescott fares far worse than him per their metrics.

I know that from what I have seen watching him he does not appear to be slower than Lescott. He obviously seems to get Pellers' system better than Lescott. (Good god, watch the Newcastle League Cup match again if you disagree - particularly the first half. Though in fairness Lescott was better after the break.)

Also, Niall Quinn and the rest of the media twunts are correct that Pellers is playing favourites? That makes absolutely no sense. Pellers is trying to validate his entire professional career - perhaps even his entire life's work - in managing this club. And he is probably on a damnably short leash with the Board. So he's going to be all, like "well of course Lescott gives us a better chance to win, but me and MD here has been mates since way back. So bugger off, Lescott, and let the chips fall where they may."

Utter foolishness. But that is precisely what the media and a bit chunk of this forum seems to hold as its position here.

It isn't Martin's fault that he is not a world-class centre-back. The guy was signed as emergency cover and was never supposed to be a first-choice ever-present. Then Nastasic regressed and pretty much pulled a Rodwell-esque repeat engagement with the trainer's table all year. Lescott has regressed to my eyes and isn't great for this style of play to begin with.

So we go gather up the torches, form a mob, and howl for the blood of MDM? Like any of this is his fault somehow? The only thing this guy has done is to go out there and work his arse off in spite of the limitations of his age and diminishing skill set. I'm very glad to have him. I wish certain drama queen crybaby types who throw a hissy fit when not passed to would emulate this attitude a little bit more. (Sorry, Balkanistas, had to get that one in.)

 

[steviemc]

There were even posters on the rag caf match thread saying the same. Now I wouldn't normally hold that place up as a font of footballing knowledge. My point is it's so blatant that even they feel moved to comment.

I agree about ragcafe not being the font of footballing knowledge, but if we're going to quote opposition fans comments as an indicator of how one of our players is perceived, it's only fair to show those comments in context. Here are the first comments made that mentioned Demichelis during the Cup Final, in the order that they were made...

Kompany is fecking dogshite. The prick is fecking full of himself and I love seeing him exposed like that. He was at fault for Demichelis' red card against Barcelona, which went largely unreported as Demichelis is a handy scapegoat.

Very good work and finish from Borini. I wouldn't blame just Kompany there, players tend to dribble past defenders, Demichelis was nowhere near to help him, if he just tracked back they would easily win the ball.

He's been consistently terrible this year although that seems to be put down to Demichelis instead of Kompany. Noodle got it right about him thinking he's invincible(or something along those lines) these days

If that was Demechelis doing what Kompany did they would be constantly talking about it.

What the feck are Tyler and Neville on about in commentary, mentioning Demichelis every five seconds?

Are they fecking blind? It was Kompany's howler which led to the goal; Demichelis was taken out of the game with a fabulous through ball, that's it.

I'm sorry but the stick Demichelis gets is ridiculous.

Are these pundits taking the piss? Even when Kompany is clearly at fault, it is still somehow Demichelis' fault

Demichelis taking all the criticism from Sky because they can't change their preconceived notions about Kompany.

Demechelis just got beat for pace that's all, his positioning was ok.

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

the criticism he gets is extremely over the top. he's really not that bad and people need to look for themselves and not join the bandwagon.

if he makes 1 mistake his whole performance, regardless how good it is, is ruined. even if its a little mistake. he had a very solid game at Wembley and its a shame people can't see it.



he's a lot better than lescott imo.

 

[peter.evans]

the criticism he gets is extremely over the top. he's really not that bad and people need to look for themselves and not join the bandwagon.

if he makes 1 mistake his whole performance, regardless how good it is, is ruined. even if its a little mistake. he had a very solid game at Wembley and its a shame people can't see it.



he's a lot better than lescott imo.

Correct and good post ! Demechelis gets slaughtered for even the tiniest of mistakes and now he even gets blamed when the mistake is made by another defender, e.g. last Sunday ! Ridiculous. The BBC highlights laid into Demechelis big time when he did a poor clearance, yet Kompany did a similar thing at least twice in the same game. Guess what ? Not even a mention.

 

[Bill]

he is a better footballer than lescott but lescott is the better defender. up to pelli to make the right call for the right match.

 

[m7mcfc]

Is a fucking liability.