Middle East Conflict (merged)

[west didsblue]

That’s a lot of whataboutary, mate, and I understand why you would, but I’m saying as I am seeing and it doesn’t look good. In fact, it’s not good as Israel really is committing offences against humanity in order to further its own need to pamper to people who have no right.

Sorry, mate, you just can’t get away from the realities of this, it’s just wrong. No defence.

No one’s denying that Israeli government actions are wrong but calling it genocide and comparing it to the Nazis is completely overstating it.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

No one’s denying that Israeli government actions are wrong but calling it genocide and comparing it to the Nazis is completely overstating it.

Where did I compare it to the Nazi regime?

These actions are classed as genocide. When you have far the capability to kill and drive a race out then it’s exactly that.

Have we not learned from history or do we just pick and choose how we depict it.

 

[west didsblue]

Where did I compare it to the Nazi regime?

These actions are classed as genocide. When you have far the capability to kill and drive a race out then it’s exactly that.

Have we not learned from history or do we just pick and choose how we depict it.

Here, unless you are talking about another period in Jewish history.

When you think about it, a (now) nation who were subject to eviction and mass murder are now doing the exact same thing to others.

This is not political or religious, it‘s quite simply a land grab for people who have no right to it and genocide to enable them to do it.

Disgraceful.

I think your definition of genocide is different to most people’s.

 

[KPXBLN]

Here, unless you are talking about another period in Jewish history.

I think your definition of genocide is different to most people’s.

The comparison to the Nazis is obviously gratuitous, inaccurate, and bound to offend, but I think there's a case for describing what's happened and is happening to the Palestinian people as genocide. It's certainly a live debate, as outlined here: https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective

That said, I think whether or not one uses that label is not especially important compared to the larger question about how one responds to the illegal military occupation, unequal treatment of Palestinian citizens or Israel, no right to return for refugees, growing far right extremism and normalisation of violent rhetoric in Israeli politics. It's also worth saying that there are Israeli politicians, including arguably now the new PM, who are explicitly advocating genocide.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Here, unless you are talking about another period in Jewish history.

I think your definition of genocide is different to most people’s.

I don’t think it is, I’ve seen it first hand.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I don’t think it is, I’ve seen it first hand.

Genocide. Haha.

I searched your posts. Not one about the Rohingya. Not one about the Uighyurs. Not one about the Yazidis. They are groups suffering genocide but not one tweet from you about them. But plenty about a non-genocide by Israel, which just happens to be the only Jewish state. I think we know where you're coming from. You only care about injustice when it's committed by Jews.

There's not one authoratative source that considers the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel (however bad it is, and it is bad) genocide.

The greatest number of Palestinians killed have been killed by their fellow Arabs. By Jordan during 'Black September', by vartious militias during the War of the Camps, the Lebanese Civil War and even in the first Intifada, nearly as many were killed by Hamas/the PA as by Israel.

 

[west didsblue]

The comparison to the Nazis is obviously gratuitous, inaccurate, and bound to offend, but I think there's a case for describing what's happened and is happening to the Palestinian people as genocide. It's certainly a live debate, as outlined here: https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective

That said, I think whether or not one uses that label is not especially important compared to the larger question about how one responds to the illegal military occupation, unequal treatment of Palestinian citizens or Israel, no right to return for refugees, growing far right extremism and normalisation of violent rhetoric in Israeli politics. It's also worth saying that there are Israeli politicians, including arguably now the new PM, who are explicitly advocating genocide.

I think it is important to say it as it is rather than to use obscure legalistic definitions for terms that are commonly understood to mean something else to the vast majority of people. Genocide is well understood to mean the systematic mass murder of a specific group of people which is not what’s happening to the Palestinian people, and pushing that particular term as a description of what’s happening makes the argument less compelling. There’s no shortage of other terminology that could be used that is more accurate and unarguable.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

View attachment 19289
Genocide. Haha.

I expect nothing more from you, mate, and do not want to get into a proper debate as I do respect your reputation on here. However, can you post a similar diagram of what the population growth has been over a number of years?

Like many, I wholeheartedly supported what the Jewish community were trying to do and get that people want a place of their own but the way it has been gone about is completely wrong. It’s no longer about Zionism, it’s now about purging areas to take over an agreed land.

If you want me to go into detail to refute your ‘HaHa’ (I cannot believe you you used that, it is so crass considering what is happening, you are far better than that).

Hopefully this is not too sentimental but I very much hold my head in shame. I got it completely wrong in the way I seen the area and now that they can basically turn to the US for billions in ‘Military aid’, without exception, I now have to re-evaluate my assessment of the area.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

View attachment 19289
Genocide. Haha.

I searched your posts. Not one about the Rohingya. Not one about the Uighyurs. Not one about the Yazidis. They are groups suffering genocide but not one tweet from you about them. But plenty about a non-genocide by Israel, which just happens to be the only Jewish state. I think we know where you're coming from. You only care about injustice when it's committed by Jews.

There's not one authoratative source that considers the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel (however bad it is, and it is bad) genocide.

The greatest number of Palestinians killed have been killed by their fellow Arabs. By Jordan during 'Black September', by vartious militias during the War of the Camps, the Lebanese Civil War and even in the first Intifada, nearly as many were killed by Hamas/the PA as by Israel.

You give yourself away, mate. You’ve just linked me with social media and confirmed that I did/didn’t do something yet I don’t have such a media account. You’ve then gone onto discredit me by saying I somehow hate Jews because I only care when it is Jews that do it.

I can confirm that I have Jewish friends who actually agree with me and that my first employer was a brilliant person, same with the family.

Disappointing that you’d do that, especially as you don’t know me, and that you’d use me, somebody who has the KSE to know better, to make a point that is so far from reality.

The Levante has had so many problems, we should not be about arguing, it should be about partnership.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You give yourself away, mate. You’ve just linked me with social media and confirmed that I did/didn’t do something yet I don’t have such a media account. You’ve then gone onto discredit me by saying I somehow hate Jews because I only care when it is Jews that do it.

I can confirm that I have Jewish friends who actually agree with me and that my first employer was a brilliant person, same with the family.

I looked on here and here alone. Nothing. Not a single tweet about any other gross injustice anywhere in the world.

And you actually used that "some of my best friends are Jewish" line. Really? Do me a favour.