Middle East Conflict

The thing is they (Israel) do have every right to defend themselves and have the military capacity to do so. Unfortunately hamas and Hezbollah are entwined within the (innocent) civilian population so to attack the terrorists without what we see as unacceptable collateral is nigh on impossible. We faced a similar problem with al Qaeda and IS in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ultimately you can't expect a load of beardy islamist terrorists to obligingly line up to be shot by a superior military force. They are going to adopt insurgent/guerilla tactics.

And that is the complexity of it mate. I do get it, Israel are damned if they do and damned if they don’t - Hamas/ hezbollah are complete scum. I get why Israel snapped but there is a limit and I can’t look away from the innocent lives being lost and who is pulling the trigger. Maybe the best thing for the region would be for Israel and Iran to have a proper straightener and stop all this proxy shit.
 
Perfectly summed up I think. Israel would 100% prefer to meet Hamas and Hezbollah on a battlefield where they could then just kill 'legitimate' targets. Hamas and Hezbollah much prefer the situation where they use their own people as human shields. The problem then becomes 'How can Israel defend itself and protect it's own innocents effectively without killing other innocents?"

Not very good Human Shields when Israel seems happy to kill hundreds of Palestinians for each "terrorist" killed. It's almost like they may actually want to kill plenty of the civilian population.
 
Perfectly summed up I think. Israel would 100% prefer to meet Hamas and Hezbollah on a battlefield where they could then just kill 'legitimate' targets. Hamas and Hezbollah much prefer the situation where they use their own people as human shields. The problem then becomes 'How can Israel defend itself and protect it's own innocents effectively without killing other innocents?"

Of course they would but that is not the reality of the situation. Arab life being seen as so cheap.
 
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Just listening to the Iranian Supreme Leader who seems to be calling for a ‘Jihad’, addressing this to all Muslim nations.
Like that's going to happen!

Although Iran does have the upper hand, the missile attack might not have done a lot of damage (although we will never know) but it proved that they can do it and have enough fire power to get through any defence

Lots of talking heads on the news from various US Right Wing think tanks telling the Israelis to go after Iran's nuclear facilities, which would just guarantee a massive strike against Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona

So lets go for their main oil export terminal in the gulf, besides the fact that a lot of their oil goes to China this would just invite the Iranians to destroy Israel's two oil refineries at Haifa and Ashdod, and you can't wage a war with no fuel!

So a few strikes at probably empty army bases and redundant silos is what they are left with, I mean all of this assumes they would not be as daft to do any of the above but I would not put my money on it
 
Like that's going to happen!

Although Iran does have the upper hand, the missile attack might not have done a lot of damage (although we will never know) but it proved that they can do it and have enough fire power to get through any defence

Lots of talking heads on the news from various US Right Wing think tanks telling the Israelis to go after Iran's nuclear facilities, which would just guarantee a massive strike against Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona

So lets go for their main oil export terminal in the gulf, besides the fact that a lot of their oil goes to China this would just invite the Iranians to destroy Israel's two oil refineries at Haifa and Ashdod, and you can't wage a war with no fuel!

So a few strikes at probably empty army bases and redundant silos is what they are left with, I mean all of this assumes they would not be as daft to do any of the above but I would not put my money on it
We seem to be on the brink and when people are forced into a corner, they will have no option but to fight back.

Would Iran throw a proper barrage into Israel, enough to overwhelm their defensive systems, I don’t know, but if the situation in Gaza and Lebanon continues, they may have no choice.

Calm heads are needed, I don’t think we have them.
 
We seem to be on the brink and when people are forced into a corner, they will have no option but to fight back.

Would Iran throw a proper barrage into Israel, enough to overwhelm their defensive systems, I don’t know, but if the situation in Gaza and Lebanon continues, they may have no choice.

Calm heads are needed, I don’t think we have them.

Iran are a bit stuck IMHO. They want nukes - that’s the game changer for them. They need Russian know how to achieve this. Russia wants their ballistic missiles to hit Ukraine with. There is a limit to what they can use against Israel if they want to achieve their ambition. Calm heads? Maybe not but certainly conflicted. Live today to nuke Israel tomorrow sort of thing.
 
We seem to be on the brink and when people are forced into a corner, they will have no option but to fight back.

Would Iran throw a proper barrage into Israel, enough to overwhelm their defensive systems, I don’t know, but if the situation in Gaza and Lebanon continues, they may have no choice.

Calm heads are needed, I don’t think we have them.
that's the dramatic reading of the situation however I believe all the options have been laid out by the Americans and I doubt very much they would want to get involved in attacking Iran they have not got a good record in nation building and also Iran is a huge country people tend to forget this

Strategically all Iran had to do was show the US and Israel what they are capable of, that's all they needed to do

By the way I have no love or regard for the regime in Iran, it's a curse on the region and holds back what could be a great and prosperous country, and the current regime is backwards and repressive, but it was created by American and British meddling and the think tanks are trying again, it's like they never learnt from Iraq, without the current Israeli government and the current Iranian government the whole region could be so much more
 
Civilians in Gaza ?
Kids who learn from age 4
Hate, kill ,what education what generation what a chance to them for normal ?
Hamas caver is that civilian in conical way
The world believes that picture
- we have the right to defend our country, one bomb in London not 181 like yesterday
And the world will justify any attack on civilians wherever they are
You do have a right to defend yourself for sure, but killing over 45thousand people is a completely disproportionate response. 2million people in Gaza and only a small proportion are terrorists.
Can you not see you are doing Hamas's recruiting for them?
 
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On this point only, and I'm sure you know, the reason for that is primarily based on their own hatred of Iran, and that is all down to the different sects of the muslim faith (sunny/shiite).




I'd disagree to a point, it is targetted or intel based, the problem in Gaza, is that hamas are completely embedded in (and often underneath) the innocent civilians.

Israel wants to wipe hamas out (understandably), so (it will say) it's unavoidable, and they have constantly warned the civilians to move when about to go into areas, the problem is theirs not really anywhere to go.

The big difference in Lebabon, is that hezbollah don't hide their infrastructure in/underneath the civilian population, so it's far easier to "target" it. Yes their leaders live/lived amongst the civilians (as in Gaza), and there will still be some collateral casualties, but far less than in (the much smaller) Gaza, and the civilians can get much further away from the targets.
Targeted but not targeted. You can't have it both ways. The numbers killed tell the truth. Hamas aren't destroyed yet still the IDF attack and the civilian dead increases way beyond the total number of Hamas terrorists.

The IDF are effectively recruiting the next generation of anti Israel terrorists with this indiscriminate campaign of bombing and killing.

It's madness.
 

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