Middle East Conflict

[metalblue]

Interesting article on BBC today. I had the impression that the 7th October attack was simply going after the festival goers however it was also against military targets which makes the murdering of the festival goers even more pointless.

Questions for IDF over fall of border post Nahal Oz on 7 October

The BBC has seen an army account of how Hamas overran a base, and spoken to survivors and bereaved families.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[tel aviv city]

You do have a right to defend yourself for sure, but killing over 45thousand people is a completely disproportionate response. 2million people in Gaza and only a small proportion are terrorists.
Can you not see you are doing Hamas's recruiting for them?

Do you have any idea what it's like to live next to terror and crime among civilians? Netanyahu's Israel tried for 15 years
And it failed, the time to conduct ourselves as the gift of wits, that we agreed to live next to it, even finance it - no more
Israel woke up to a new day -
The terror will either destroy our country, God forbid, or it will fold and look for other enemies, and by the way, it is not particularly lacking

 

[inbetween]

Tbf, they’re surrounded by countries, people and ideologies that are trying to wipe them from the face of the earth by any means possible, yet they’re expected to accept and allow the full integration of said peoples into their country, lives and institutions…and sit down with them to talk about “peace,” while only serving as a proxy for a much larger, stronger, and militarily significant adversary that doesn’t like to get its hands dirty.

There’s not many places on earth where you can look at the horizon, in all directions, and say, “They want to annihilate us!”

If the US went into a bombing campaign that killed potentially 1000 innocent people in mere weeks then we'd be utterly shocked and disgusted. It'd certainly be declared illegal and excessive.

If there was one terrorist in Chicago then would you accept that the Royal Air Force from the UK could fly into the US and drop a 1000lb bomb right in the centre of the apartment block where the terrorist lived whilst also killing hundreds of innocents? This is the same analogy of what Israel is doing in Lebanon.

Well targeted and planned attacks from the air do not kill and wound thousands of people. What Israel is doing is extremely likely to be illegal unless of course they've killed thousands of terrorists and no civilians but given the pictures of them bombing central Beirut I find that to be extremely unlikely!

I understand everybody around them hates them and there are reasons for that but bombing civilian areas and causing such excessive loss of life and damage is never justified, at least by western standards anyway.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

that's the dramatic reading of the situation however I believe all the options have been laid out by the Americans and I doubt very much they would want to get involved in attacking Iran they have not got a good record in nation building and also Iran is a huge country people tend to forget this

Strategically all Iran had to do was show the US and Israel what they are capable of, that's all they needed to do

By the way I have no love or regard for the regime in Iran, it's a curse on the region and holds back what could be a great and prosperous country, and the current regime is backwards and repressive, but it was created by American and British meddling and the think tanks are trying again, it's like they never learnt from Iraq, without the current Israeli government and the current Iranian government the whole region could be so much more

I agree, both regimes are toxic within, entrenched in their own power struggles.

When one looks at these things, I always look at the most dangerous scenario and then move to the most likely. It’s interesting that Iran did similar to last time, flagged to everybody who needed to know, what they were going to do. They don’t want escalation but have to show to their people that they are capable of retaliation when needed.

However, this isn’t really about them, is all about how far Israel, or should I say the Israeli government, are willing to take it.

 

[Vic]

Do you have any idea what it's like to live next to terror and crime among civilians? Netanyahu's Israel tried for 15 years
And it failed, the time to conduct ourselves as the gift of wits, that we agreed to live next to it, even finance it - no more
Israel woke up to a new day -
The terror will either destroy our country, God forbid, or it will fold and look for other enemies, and by the way, it is not particularly lacking

What's it like having your land stolen by settlers? Netanyahu hasn't tried anything other than facilitate land grabs.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

So you're suggesting that Palestinians will have to keep fighting in order to get their land back.

FAFO.

Good luck!

 

[Vic]

Targeted but not targeted. You can't have it both ways. The numbers killed tell the truth. Hamas aren't destroyed yet still the IDF attack and the civilian dead increases way beyond the total number of Hamas terrorists.

The IDF are effectively recruiting the next generation of anti Israel terrorists with this indiscriminate campaign of bombing and killing.

It's madness.

... recruiting an anti-Israel generation worldwide. It's not terrorists providing the existential threat, it's the Israeli response to terrorism losing them sympathy.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

So at what point does Israel think they have enough land?

When they occupy all the West Bank?

When they occupy east of the Jordan?

When they reclaim the extent of Solomon's biblical kingdom? (Whether or not those biblical borders were true or just an optimistic "history".)

Discuss what land you want who to cede to whom.

I don’t know which land, or when, or even why. What I know is that they didn’t start this round of conflict, but they intend to end it on their terms, if and when they see fit.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

... recruiting an anti-Israel generation worldwide. It's not terrorists providing the existential threat, it's the Israeli response to terrorism losing them sympathy.

So, what should they do? Wine & roses, with a “Thank you, sir, may I have another?” card?

 

[Vic]

So, what should they do? Wine & roses, with a “Thank you, sir, may I have another?” card?

Not killing their own leaders who are willing to negotiate for peace would be a start.