Middle East Conflict

[inbetween]

Why wouldn't they? Plenty of Arabs accepted living within the borders of Israel even as second class citizens. Given respective birthrates the Arabs would also be the majority in the multi ethnic state within a generation. It's the Zionists that aren't prepared to live in a society where there's a racial hierarchy.



Jews who aren't proponents of Zionism aren't a threat to peace or Palestinians. I would rather that Zionists chose to live elsewhere if they can't get over the idea that they have a special value.



Why is a Jewish equivalent of Salt Lake City/ Utah an evil idea?

I think it would be very easy to find evidence that the Palestinians would want to declare an official religion and law system based upon Islam. By nature though that would be incompatible with a free and secular society and it certainly detracts any possibility of equality in law for anybody who isn't Muslim. The evidence of that is well plainly obvious throughout the Middle East.

You only have to look at how many non-Muslim people comfortably live in the more modern Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia, it's very few. With outright hostile countries such as Yemen or Syria you can count the number of Jewish people living there on one hand.

The closest example is perhaps Turkey but whilst Turkey is predominately Muslim Turkey is no different to the west in that it does not have an Islamic law based system such as Sharia.

Do the Palestinians want to live and coexist with Jewish people and others in a secular state such as Turkey? I seriously doubt it. At the very least they want to stop dying and maybe would accept such a state on those grounds but ultimately that isn't what they want. What they want is an Islamic country and for the Jews living in Israel to go away which is sort of no different to the Zionists in Israel.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

I think it would be very easy to find evidence that the Palestinians would want to declare an official religion and law system based upon Islam. By nature though that would be incompatible with a free and secular society and it certainly detracts any possibility of equality in law for anybody who isn't Muslim. The evidence of that is well plainly obvious throughout the Middle East.

You only have to look at how many non-Muslim people comfortably live in the more modern Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia, it's very few. With outright hostile countries such as Yemen or Syria you can count the number of Jewish people living there on one hand.

The closest example is perhaps Turkey but whilst Turkey is predominately Muslim Turkey is no different to the west in that it does not have an Islamic law based system such as Sharia.

Do the Palestinians want to live and coexist with Jewish people and others in a secular state such as Turkey? I seriously doubt it. At the very least they want to stop dying and maybe would accept such a state on those grounds but ultimately that isn't what they want. What they want is an Islamic country and for the Jews living in Israel to go away which is sort of no different to the Zionists in Israel.

You might need to read up on your history.

The PLO were a secular organisation and used the same tactics as Hamas.

There were also a range of groups that participated with Hamas on October 7th. This included a Marxist paramilitary.

It's not a religious conflict.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

When did Israel last have a government that wasn't extremist?

Israel is such an extreme society that they assassinated their own prime minister when he pledged to strike a peace deal.

How it exists is an extremist society based on the idea of racial supremacy. They aren't likely to relinquish that foundational idea. Until they do, there will always be problems.


I have no problem with the idea of a multi-ethnic successor state that combines both Jewish and Palestinians.

Your living in fantasy land if you think that’s going to happen, especially with Hamas still there and huge numbers of supporters - who want to eradicate all jews.

Muslims do work and live in Israel, but it’s a minority and it’s controlled. There’s no way the population of either side would accept it.

It’s the same with other countries in the Middle East. Countries like Syria, Egypt and other wouldn’t accept millions of Jewish people. You mention racial supremacy - that’s the same in most countries in that region. A two state solution is the way forward in my view. Otherwise it’s continuous war.

 

[robbieh]

Will the international community allow this?

Israeli settler leader Daniella Weiss says Palestinians will 'disappear' from Gaza

Speaking at Likud-backed conference, Weiss says thousands of settlers are ready to move to Gaza, and Palestinians have 'lost the right' to be there

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Your living in fantasy land if you think that’s going to happen, especially with Hamas still there and huge numbers of supporters - who want to eradicate all jews.

Muslims do work and live in Israel, but it’s a minority and it’s controlled. There’s no way the population of either side would accept it.

It’s the same with other countries in the Middle East. Countries like Syria, Egypt and other wouldn’t accept millions of Jewish people. You mention racial supremacy - that’s the same in most countries in that region. A two state solution is the way forward in my view. Otherwise it’s continuous war.

The two state solution is non viable because the Zionists within Israel have deliberately pursued policies that make a it practically impossible for a Palestinian territory to exist.

How could they exist when there are settler enclaves splattered about like a Jackson Pollock?

The original two state solution prior to the forced partition also included a plan for economic union. So it wasn't two truly independent states.

Sorry this isn't true about the racial supremacy point. The zionists brought with them a form of 19th century ethnic nationalism that would eventually morph into National Socialism. Zionism's closest extant equivalent is probably Serbian Ethnic Nationalism.

 

[Palerider]

especially with Hamas still there and huge numbers of supporters - who want to eradicate all jews.

I think those of us who 'favour' Israel in this conflict do so for that very reason. The Palestinians need to find a peace campaigner with charisma who can articulate their cause.

 

[The blue phantom]

I think those of us who 'favour' Israel in this conflict do so for that very reason. The Palestinians need to find a peace campaigner with charisma who can articulate their cause

Hasn't their cause been articulated by many sympathising Countries aswel as the UN for years?

 

[Vic]

I think those of us who 'favour' Israel in this conflict do so for that very reason. The Palestinians need to find a peace campaigner with charisma who can articulate their cause.

That person would definitely be on Netanyahu's hitlist.

 

[makinghistory]

Take off your zionist tinted glasses for a minute.

No one here is not condemning Hamas atrocities on the 7th October. That day is atrocious and is undoubtedly a war crime. 1 baby was killed (Mila Cohen) and that is one too many babies. More than 700 civilians were killed in gruesome manner. Many of the cars were bombed and flattened with helicopters, and houses with bazookas and tanks. The whole event was absolutely horrifying and we empathise those killed and those taken as hostages. We, as hostage families, demand for a ceasefire, even if it meant exchange of prisoners.

The ICJ labelled 5 war criminals, 3 of whom are Hamas. They should be tried in the international court (though 2 of them have already been killed).

How about you?

Your multiple posts never once mentioned about the plight of Gazans and Palestinians, not after 7 October, not before 7 October. What are your thoughts of the Gazans?
What are your thoughts about the 2 Israel government reps who ICJ demands to be tried for war crimes?

In response to your comments re. Gaza's and Palestinians - I have no issue whatsoever with palestinian Arabs having their own state, neither have jews or Israelis. BTW they never claimed to want a state until the creation of the state of Israel. Neither did they claim Jerusalem as their capital. Not even mentioned once in the koran. Speaks volumes. This is bc it's not about having a palestinian state at all.Thats just the narrative. It's about radical islam wanting the destruction of Israel......something they themselves admit and are sworn too. When Egypt and Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza, did they offer the ppl a Palestinian state ? They could have done then. A big fat NO... they did not is the answer. Thoughts on that please.
At the same time, radical islam wants to see the end of western values. This has nothing to do with whether I am a zionist or not. Millions of non zionists know very well what radical islam is doing and the chaos it is causing around the world. This ideology hates judeo christian civilisation and our culture and values. I love England. Do you see the pro Hamas "marchers for peace and ceasefire now" holding up banners saying ...Release the hostages ? Why not ? Im hating what these nutters are doing to this country in particular, but around the world generally. As for the ICJ.......where were they when America obliterated Afghanistan and killed 1,000s of civilians ? Where have they been since Assad has caused the death of nearing 1,000,000 civilians and still does ? Why have they not brought the Chinese leaders to court for their treatment of the muslim Uyghurs? Where is the ICJ for the 150,000 civilians killed in Yemen aswell as more than 200,000 dead as a result of ongoing famine during their war ? I could take you around the world with similar examples. I can only deduce one thing... No jews. No news.

 

[makinghistory]

So this isn't a war for the Palestinians, it's a war against the existence of Israel, one that Israel is however plainly winning which you would rather wasn't the case?

I think you've sort of vacated any position to argue for solutions for peace. Continued war is only going to be a death sentence for the Palestinians because Israel will exist.

I believe that Israel should exist but I also believe that Palestine should exist. We must accept this reality and merge the two or accept the other reality which is a lot of people are going to die for either cause.

So this isn't a war for the Palestinians, it's a war against the existence of Israel, one that Israel is however plainly winning which you would rather wasn't the case?

I think you've sort of vacated any position to argue for solutions for peace. Continued war is only going to be a death sentence for the Palestinians because Israel will exist.

I believe that Israel should exist but I also believe that Palestine should exist. We must accept this reality and merge the two or accept the other reality which is a lot of people are going to die for either cause.

You say Israel isn't going to surrender territory in exchange for peace. It just is not going to happen. I regard Israel as the the chief trouble you say. HOWEVER Israel gave back the Sinai after obliterating Egypt. Please name me 1 country that has "given back" land after victory.