Middle East Conflict

[splinter]

You know its ramping up if big Joe is coming to town..a visit to aldi later to stock up on the wine collection..

 

[Ducado]

You know its ramping up if big Joe is coming to town..a visit to aldi later to stock up on the wine collection..

I think its more to try and avert a disastrous war, and perhaps bang heads together, looking at the past conflicts they usually last 10-15 days before the US tells Israel enough, but this one is very different, I just don't see how the stated war aims can be achieved without massive bloodshed and other players becoming involved, I also don't know what a diplomatic solution would look like, Hamas can't be allowed to get away with the atrocity they commited, it's a terrible situation the world is facing

People think it does not affect them but it does instability in the Middle East tends to push up fuel prices. which ramps up inflation even more

 

[Bazzmand Show]

Haven't Palestine and Hamas been the ones who have strongly opposed a two state solution in the past? Not sure how you can negotiate with that.

 

[paulchapo]

You know its ramping up if big Joe is coming to town..a visit to aldi later to stock up on the wine collection..

Recommend any good ones? I've drank one of those Australian reds, not bad for £4.45 a bottle.

 

[splinter]

I think its more to try and avert a disastrous war, and perhaps bang heads together, looking at the past conflicts they usually last 10-15 days before the US tells Israel enough, but this one is very different, I just don't see how the stated war aims can be achieved without massive bloodshed and other players becoming involved, I also don't know what a diplomatic solution would look like, Hamas can't be allowed to get away with the atrocity they commited, it's a terrible situation the world is facing

People think it does not affect them but it does instability in the Middle East tends to push up fuel prices. which ramps up inflation even more

I hope so..still off to aldi mate

 

[Palerider]

Haven't Palestine and Hamas been the ones who have strongly opposed a two state solution in the past? Not sure how you can negotiate with that.

I think this is the biggest question of all. If we can all just take a rest from running as fast as we can to the moral high ground. Just how do Israel and Palestine happily co-exist when so many on both sides would happily (but with earnest regret of course) completely remove the other from the planet?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Haven't Palestine and Hamas been the ones who have strongly opposed a two state solution in the past? Not sure how you can negotiate with that.

Strange take. You can always negotiate. Things change. But as I said before, to get Hamas and Hezbollah to the table you need to cut off their funding and their weapons. You need the Arab States and Iran on board for that and that needs some grown up diplomacy from the US.

 

[Bazzmand Show]

I think this is the biggest question of all. If we can all just take a rest from running as fast as we can to the moral high ground. Just how do Israel and Palestine happily co-exist when so many on both sides would happily (but with earnest regret of course) completely remove the other from the planet?

Israel has voted in favour of a two state solution 5 times. In fact 30% of the Israeli population is Palestinian.

 

[robbieh]

I think its more to try and avert a disastrous war, and perhaps bang heads together, looking at the past conflicts they usually last 10-15 days before the US tells Israel enough, but this one is very different, I just don't see how the stated war aims can be achieved without massive bloodshed and other players becoming involved, I also don't know what a diplomatic solution would look like, Hamas can't be allowed to get away with the atrocity they commited, it's a terrible situation the world is facing

People think it does not affect them but it does instability in the Middle East tends to push up fuel prices. which ramps up inflation even more

Never mind inflation I'm quite sure the current Israeli leadership would go nuclear if Hezbollah and Iran got involved.

 

[The blue phantom]

I think this is the biggest question of all. If we can all just take a rest from running as fast as we can to the moral high ground. Just how do Israel and Palestine happily co-exist when so many on both sides would happily (but with earnest regret of course) completely remove the other from the planet?

Israeli settlers giving back the land theve stolen is a start.

 

[Palerider]

Israel has voted in favour of a two state solution 5 times. In fact 30% of the Israeli population is Palestinian.

Fair point. I suppose another one is that Hamas are, to all intent and purpose, the government of Palestine. Maybe the UN could get off it's fat arse, move into Gaza, sort out Hamas and have democratic elections to get a sane government which could then negotiate a two state solution in good faith.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

As a right wing populist he’s lasted a long time mainly by telling Israelis what they want to hear, not what they needed to hear, it’s a tragedy that it’s ended up like this, the population is divided as never before, with many young Israelis just upping and leaving

As the world sheds itself of the right wing populists, I hope Israel is next

While I share your sentiment, it’s pretty disturbing when you have factions of the left leaning members in the Knesset openly blaming all Gazan children for their own genocide.

Yet another example of the wider Zionist rhetoric where Israel will justify the murder of innocents.

 

[Palerider]

Israeli settlers giving back the land theve stolen is a start.

Yes, that could be part of a negotiated settlement. The key word being 'negotiated'.

 

[Ducado]

Fair point. I suppose another one is that Hamas are, to all intent and purpose, the government of Palestine. Maybe the UN could get off it's fat arse, move into Gaza, sort out Hamas and have democratic elections to get a sane government which could then negotiate a two state solution in good faith.

Gaza is a small part of Palestine, the main part is the West Bank which is controlled by the Fatah (PLO) Hamas whilst not the creation of the Israeli right wing, was certainly encouraged in it's early days as a way to undermine Fatah and prevent the creation of a Palestinian state

 

[goalmole]

I think this is the biggest question of all. If we can all just take a rest from running as fast as we can to the moral high ground. Just how do Israel and Palestine happily co-exist when so many on both sides would happily (but with earnest regret of course) completely remove the other from the planet?

These extremists on both sides cannot operate in a vacuum. They exist and thrive because they have international sympathy and backing, financial and diplomatic, without which they cannot exist. Note the effect the Hamas action has had on the Saudi - Israeli talks. Certain governments cannot be seen to be ignoring the plight of the Palestinians in the current circumstances.
If there was a fair and equitable solution in the eyes of the international community the extremist elements would soon lose public and therefore government sympathy, not to mention the support of their own people, and just wither on the vine.

 

[Ducado]

Another thing people are missing is what this does for the status of Iran on "the Arab Street" it's never an unpopular move to stand up to Israel, but it will be causing panic in the Arab governments, in the battle for the hearts and minds of the Arabs and the Muslim world in general, they certainly don't want Iran to look good

And this is also the conundrum the US is facing, the US attacks Iran for standing up to Israel could cause a lot of dominos to fall

 

[Jesus H Gabz]

I think this is the biggest question of all. If we can all just take a rest from running as fast as we can to the moral high ground. Just how do Israel and Palestine happily co-exist when so many on both sides would happily (but with earnest regret of course) completely remove the other from the planet?

This is about the best post I’ve read on this subject, the he said she said, gigantic game of top trumps that’s going on, together with all the other propaganda, is what’s going to detract from what really needs to happen. I’m one of those trying to educate myself about its entirety, to read between the lines, to try and understand the subject better, but it’s not easy for all the fog around it

 

[west didsblue]

Credit to the Israelis in this sample who have a balanced perspective, in these terrible times. Clearly the Hamas terrorists were responsible for the initial atrocities but when there are terrorist attacks in the U.K. intelligence failures are heavily scrutinised. Something that Netanyahu’s fan boys on here don’t seem able to contemplate.

Turning to the hostages, there has to be some hope that hostages can be saved. The situation is bleak but Israel has spent decades training many of the best special forces troops in the world. There’s also rumours of prisoner swap talks but it’s hard to envisage a swap atm. There’s doesn’t seem a God atm but I’ve said a prayer for the hostages anyway.

Other than Eds, who’s a Netanyahu fanboy? From what I’ve seen the fact that he’s a **** is something that practically everyone agrees on whichever side of the debate they’re on.

 

[Ducado]

I guess the good news if we can call it that, is that there may not be a ground invasion, there appears to be a little bit of back peddling, perhaps waiting for the US to say something, the only trouble is, if this is the case Iran will present this as a great victory and it's stock will further rise

Next phase may be different from ground offensive: Israel​

An Israeli army spokesperson says troops are preparing for the next phase of the war, but that may not be the expected ground invasion of Gaza.
“We are preparing for the next stages of war. We haven’t said what they will be. Everybody’s talking about the ground offensive. It might be something different,” Richard Hecht said at a regular briefing with reporters.

 

[Gremlin]

Israeli settlers giving back the land theve stolen is a start.

They did that in Gaza in 2005 and that turned out well. What is needed here is a comprehensive peace settlement with Palestinians getting a viable state with guarantees of security, trade etc. and Israel getting security guarantees so that they leave the Palestinians alone. However, as Hamas and the Israeli right are both currently in the mindset that they can solve this by wiping the other out, we are a million miles away from getting to that position.