Middle East Conflict

Ohrodneyrodney said:
Bollocks. If you think the BBC and the Independent are going to going to put forward pro-Israeli propaganda, you're on a different planet. Like it or not, it happened.
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I'm looking at the BBC I can't see any report of the reported beheadings , but that they had been killed in their bedrooms , not that it's any better just adding context
 
Ohrodneyrodney said:
Bollocks. If you think the BBC and the Independent are going to going to put forward pro-Israeli propaganda, you're on a different planet. Like it or not, it happened.
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They report what they are told, like I said the killing of babies makes great propaganda, the BBC also reported the incubator story in fact it was reported worldwide at the time
 
Ducado said:
First off, be very wary of war baby stories, they are powerful bits of propaganda that are rarely true, in WW1 the British press was full of stories of German soldiers using Belgium and French babies as bayonet practice, and in the first gulf war who can forget about the babies being thrown out of incubators, it wasn’t true but it engenders good stories and further demonises the enemy.

Supporting the rights of Palestinians is not giving support to terrorists, their are huge civil rights abuses going on in the West Bank, just like you could sympathise with the plight of Catholics in Northern Ireland without supporting the IRA, and like it or not one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter

This bloodshed is only a symptom of a festering wound that has not healed nor will it ever heal until the root causes are dealt with a fair and equitable solution until then and only then will peace prevail

As for the US position, it’s wholly for domestic consumption, but they have taken their eye off the ball, and allowed Israel to carry on with very little change
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The German army committed many atrocities' in Belgium after violating its borders during WW1 including the murder of women and children, the propaganda posters weren't far from the truth.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You persist in pushing this narrative that somehow boatloads of Jews suddenly descended on this peaceful Palestinian state and proceeded to drive them out at the point of a gun.

What started 75 years ago was that the British government having made a number of attempts to resolve the issue, handed its mandate (granted by the League of Nations in 1922 or 1923) back to the UN.

The UN proposal was for partition of the territory, which was voted on and agreed by the required two-thirds majority.

The Muslim bloc at the UN voted against and the decision wasn't acceptable to the local Arab leadership. Once the mandate expired in May 1948, Israel declared its part as an independent state. They were already subject to attacks by irregular Arab forces but now the regular armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq joined in. The newly formed Israel more than held its own however and (after atrocities on both sides) the 1948 borders were established in international law.

Those borders were far less favourable to the Arab side than the original partition plan had been. I also don't think there's much doubt that there was a deliberate campaign to ethnically cleanse some areas of the territory but that also applied to long-standing Jewish communities outside Israel.

So this slant that these bloodthirsty Jews attacked and occupied the land is utterly and completely false.

And even if the Arab armies had overrun the nascent Israeli state, there would have still been no Palestine as it's well documented that both Egypt & Syria claimed it as part their own countries.

Now we can't change history unfortunately but let's not completely rewrite it.
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Feel free to point out exactly where I’ve re-written history in any of my previous posts PB. Your version of historic events isn’t much different to mine, but something you will most likely consider a Palestinian perspective.

- From 1517 to 1917 Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire where Christians, Muslims and Jews lived in relative harmony for the most part
- In the late 1800’s/early 1900’s the Zionist movement was founded and led by Theodore Herzi with the plan of creating a Jewish homeland
- At this time the Jewish population of Palestine was around 8% and Arab nationalism was on the rise and many Palestinians wanted an independent state
- Imperial Britain knew of both the Palestinian and Zionist ambitions and used this to bolster their own interests
- In 1914 during world war 1, Britain went to war with the Ottomans
- In 1915 Henry McMohan went to the Arabs with a proposal to fight against the Ottomans in return for independence
- In 1917 The Balfour declaration was created after he wrote a letter to Walter Rothschild stating the British govt were in favour of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine and nothing would be done to prejudice the civil or religious rights of the existing population.
- This declaration was in stark contrast as to what the British and French armies had promised Iraq, Syria and Palestine in 1918
- So Britain had promised that independence to the Arabs in Palestine, while also promising the same inhabited land to the Jews
- When the Ottomans lost control in 1918, the League of Nations gave Britain a dual mandate of Palestine.
- On one hand they were to act on behalf of Palestinians and on the other to act on behalf of the international Jewish community who wanted to establish a homeland
- Britain drew up arbitrary borders and during this time Jewish folk from Europe began immigrating and buying up land
- The Jewish population rose from 60,000 to 600,000 by 1947
- Many Palestinians saw this mass influx as a European colonial movement and as expected this would lead to conflict
- In 1929 there were clashes at the wailing wall leading to a number of deaths on both sides
- In 1936 the clashes got worse as immigration increased
- During the riots at least 2000 Palestinians were killed by the British army
- A British commission concluded that because of the mass immigration the two groups couldn’t be reconciled and recommended a partition of the land
- The Arab higher commission rejected this and claimed all the land belonged to them. Britain in return banned them
- In 1939 the British proposed a bi-national state and limiting Jewish immigration for 5 years
- Immigration still continued on mass however (Yes we all know what happened in world war 2) as a result more violence erupted. After creating the mess in the first place by giving land promised to the inhabitants to another group of people Britain decided to hand over to the UN in 1948, whom decided to partition the land.
- Once the British army left, it emboldened the Zionist movement and the Arabs from neighbouring countries and from 1948 until today we have seen entire villages wiped out, Over 700,000 Palestinians expelled from their own land, countless state sponsored atrocities committed by the IDF, settlers free to brutalise Palestinians, apartheid imposed on the indigenous population and a slow and systematic ethnic cleansing unfold before our very eyes.
 
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trueblue1972 said:
Oh, I had sky news on , I was looking at bbc website , was it an interview with a soldier? If so I saw that earlier, but I was waiting for further verification before I made my mind up completely
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No, videos.
I guess some will say it was all staged.
Unbelievable.
 
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