Middle East Conflict

Prestwich_Blue said:
Another one peddling the myth that all the "Zionists" (I think you mean Jews) descended on this peaceful Arab territory and proceeded to drive them all out.

The "Zionists" were there well over a thousand years before Muhammad and Islam came into being. The destruction of the Second Temple, which was the culmination of a war between the Jews and the Romans, took place in 79AD. Islam is believed to have been founded around 600AD.

Maths and history clearly not your strong points.
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Interesting matter you raise. The Jews invaded Canaan..so possibly could be termed Zionists by todays definition, but possibly it relates more to Herzl and Weissman in the late 19th Century..however the Jews were there long before the Palestinians..but how far back does one go in history to stake a claim ?? Palestinians were in the area longer than the Jews..Difficult one.
 
Berts Neck said:
Interesting matter you raise. The Jews invaded Canaan..so possibly could be termed Zionists by todays definition, but possibly it relates more to Herzl and Weissman in the late 19th Century..however the Jews were there long before the Palestinians..but how far back does one go in history to stake a claim ?? Palestinians were in the area longer than the Jews..Difficult one.
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It's almost as though complexity and nuance are necessary in this discussion...
 
The blue phantom said:
Meanwhile on the Westbank children getting shot dead for throwing stones. No words to describe these IDF Monsters.

news.sky.com

Israel-Hamas war: As protesters throwing stones are shot by Israeli snipers, this is part of 'normal' life for the West Bank

In the West Bank in the past week and a half alone, over 60 people have been shot dead by Israeli marksmen, and more than 1,300 have been wounded; it's barely reported.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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Nevermind throwing stones, Palestinians have been killed for no rhyme or reason, including footballers. This is a football forum afterall.

In 2009, Palestine national team footballers Ayman Alkurd (29), Shadi Sbakhe (27) and Wajeh Mostahe (24) killed by missiles.

January 2014, Jawhar Naseer (19), footballer for Abu Dis FC was outside stadium after training. He was shot on leg and then try to run to safety, then shot on hand and leg 11 times (7 left foot, 3 right foot), then beaten up including hit head by gun and legs snapped backward until broke, and set by dogs. Legs had to be amputated.

10 March 2014, Saji Darwish, footballer for Beitin FC was in the Givat Assaf vicinity, shot in the head by IDF.

March 2018, Mohammed Khalil (23), Salah FC footballer, IDF shot him in the leg and knee destroyed. Shot by ‘butterfly bullet’, a munition that destroyed upon impact and pulverising tissue, arteries and bone. The event was recorded on video:



Upon Argentina hearing of Khalil’s news, Argentina cancelled their football match against Israel.

May 2021, Sa’id Yousef Odeh (16), Footballer promoted with number 22 for champion team Balata FC, Shot by IDF on his chest as random shots after he was returning from prayer. Red Crescent reached for medic, but IDF blocked medic until Sa’id bled to death.

18 May 2022, Thayer Khalil Yazouri (18), Footballer, was at Al-Bireh City, Ramallah, and killed after shot in the heart

27 May 2022, Zaid Mohammad Ghneim (15), Footballer, killed at Al-Khader by Shot on the back and neck

11 April 2022, Mohammad Ali Ahmad Alghneim (19), footballer for 3rd division Al Khadr Club, killed after Shot in the back

22 Dec 2022, Ahmed Daraghmeh (23), top-league club Footballer (top-scorer), location: Tubas, killed by shots on back and feet

21 June 2023, Omar Abu Qatin (25), winger footballer for 3rd division club, location: Turnus Aya, killed by shots.

Several other footballers, killed by shots and airstrikes as well as imprisonment. Omar Abu Rwoyyais (Palestine NT goalkeeper) imprisoned in 2012. Zakaria Issa (Palestine NT footballer) was imprisoned for 16 years.

And on children playing football, remember and never forget the atrocities attacked on children who were just playing football. Khalil Al Mughrabi (11) shot and killed because he was playing football close to the fence.

Ismael Mohammed Bakr (9), Ahed Atif Bakr (10), Zakaria Ahed Bakr (10), Mohammed Ramiz Bakr (11), were playing football on the beach. They were shot and killed by Israeli gunships.
 
Berts Neck said:
Interesting matter you raise. The Jews invaded Canaan..so possibly could be termed Zionists by todays definition, but possibly it relates more to Herzl and Weissman in the late 19th Century..however the Jews were there long before the Palestinians..but how far back does one go in history to stake a claim ?? Palestinians were in the area longer than the Jews..Difficult one.
Click to expand...
I hate to throw a spanner in the works, but there is some good evidence (not shouted from the rooftops) that most Palestinians are descended from the Jewish population that managed to stay around, eventually they converted (or were forced to convert to Islam)

There is a myth quite prevalent that all arabs are just Arabs, nothing could be further than the truth. think the Gulf States (but not Yemon( that is where Arabic people live, the rest in North Africa are mainly descendants of the original populations who were conquered by the Arabs and are now considered arabic countries (apart from Morocco which is Berber)
 
An unprecedented American naval force with over 15 thousand American soldiers is enveloping Israel these days

American military support for Israel, which is reflected in the placement of dedicated physical forces near Israel, is reaching its peak these days.
I am attaching a list of the naval forces (only) that were sent to Israel due to the security situation.

1. USS Gerald R. Ford (aircraft carrier)
2. USS Eisenhower (aircraft carrier)
3.Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser
4. USS Normandy (destroyer)
5. USS Thomas Hudner (destroyer)
6. USS Ramage (Destroyer)
7. USS Carney (Destroyer)
8. USS Roosevelt (destroyer)
9. USS mount Whitney (command ship)
10. USS Bataan
Amphibious helicopter carrier and rapid intervention force

The American aircraft carriers each contain about 5,000 American soldiers, while the naval vessels that accompany them (aircraft carriers are not fools alone, but with an enveloping naval force that includes destroyers, missile ships, and according to foreign publications also submarines), include about 1,500-2,000 people. For example, The US Navy's latest publication Vessels 3 to 8 listed above are part of the strike group attached to the aircraft carrier Gerald Ford.
The American missile ships accompanying the aircraft carrier Gerald Ford have a firepower of about 200 cruise missiles per ship.

The Bataan helicopter carrier (number 10 on the list) is actually a rapid intervention force of the US Navy and has about 1600 soldiers on board.

In total, over 15 thousand American soldiers are stationed here who came to support Israel and deter various parties from joining the fighting against Israel.

For comparison, in Syria the US maintains a military force of only 900 men in recent years and in Iraq another 2500 to deal with the challenges there.
I will also note that the numbers I mentioned do not include US military air forces in American bases in neighboring countries.

The American force standing here can face a great many challenges in the Middle East, if required.
 
trueblue1972 said:
An unprecedented American naval force with over 15 thousand American soldiers is enveloping Israel these days

American military support for Israel, which is reflected in the placement of dedicated physical forces near Israel, is reaching its peak these days.
I am attaching a list of the naval forces (only) that were sent to Israel due to the security situation.

1. USS Gerald R. Ford (aircraft carrier)
2. USS Eisenhower (aircraft carrier)
3.Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser
4. USS Normandy (destroyer)
5. USS Thomas Hudner (destroyer)
6. USS Ramage (Destroyer)
7. USS Carney (Destroyer)
8. USS Roosevelt (destroyer)
9. USS mount Whitney (command ship)
10. USS Bataan
Amphibious helicopter carrier and rapid intervention force

The American aircraft carriers each contain about 5,000 American soldiers, while the naval vessels that accompany them (aircraft carriers are not fools alone, but with an enveloping naval force that includes destroyers, missile ships, and according to foreign publications also submarines), include about 1,500-2,000 people. For example, The US Navy's latest publication Vessels 3 to 8 listed above are part of the strike group attached to the aircraft carrier Gerald Ford.
The American missile ships accompanying the aircraft carrier Gerald Ford have a firepower of about 200 cruise missiles per ship.

The Bataan helicopter carrier (number 10 on the list) is actually a rapid intervention force of the US Navy and has about 1600 soldiers on board.

In total, over 15 thousand American soldiers are stationed here who came to support Israel and deter various parties from joining the fighting against Israel.

For comparison, in Syria the US maintains a military force of only 900 men in recent years and in Iraq another 2500 to deal with the challenges there.
I will also note that the numbers I mentioned do not include US military air forces in American bases in neighboring countries.

The American force standing here can face a great many challenges in the Middle East, if required.
Click to expand...
Clear message to Hezbollah and Iran; Don't even think about it...
 
trueblue1972 said:
An unprecedented American naval force with over 15 thousand American soldiers is enveloping Israel these days

American military support for Israel, which is reflected in the placement of dedicated physical forces near Israel, is reaching its peak these days.
I am attaching a list of the naval forces (only) that were sent to Israel due to the security situation.

1. USS Gerald R. Ford (aircraft carrier)
2. USS Eisenhower (aircraft carrier)
3.Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser
4. USS Normandy (destroyer)
5. USS Thomas Hudner (destroyer)
6. USS Ramage (Destroyer)
7. USS Carney (Destroyer)
8. USS Roosevelt (destroyer)
9. USS mount Whitney (command ship)
10. USS Bataan
Amphibious helicopter carrier and rapid intervention force

The American aircraft carriers each contain about 5,000 American soldiers, while the naval vessels that accompany them (aircraft carriers are not fools alone, but with an enveloping naval force that includes destroyers, missile ships, and according to foreign publications also submarines), include about 1,500-2,000 people. For example, The US Navy's latest publication Vessels 3 to 8 listed above are part of the strike group attached to the aircraft carrier Gerald Ford.
The American missile ships accompanying the aircraft carrier Gerald Ford have a firepower of about 200 cruise missiles per ship.

The Bataan helicopter carrier (number 10 on the list) is actually a rapid intervention force of the US Navy and has about 1600 soldiers on board.

In total, over 15 thousand American soldiers are stationed here who came to support Israel and deter various parties from joining the fighting against Israel.

For comparison, in Syria the US maintains a military force of only 900 men in recent years and in Iraq another 2500 to deal with the challenges there.
I will also note that the numbers I mentioned do not include US military air forces in American bases in neighboring countries.

The American force standing here can face a great many challenges in the Middle East, if required.
Click to expand...
The question is, will they use them?

You can quite easily get into Middle East Wars, getting out of them is the problem

I think everyone knows that if Israel goes in on the ground Hezbollah will be come involved, and that's why i think there have been so many leaders going to Israel, they are trying to avert an all out war. personally I don't think there will be a ground operation and all these "solidarity" visits are part of the deal there will be some fudge to end all this, until the next round starts again

Iran etc, are not worried about the US taking part, they can just as easily block the gulf shipping lanes which will cause economic chaos especially to the west
 
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