Middle East Conflict

[Mr Fraser]

The reality is that Israel became a formally recognised country by the decleration of the UN. You can argue about the rights, wrongs and wherefores of that all you want, but that remains a fact.

Not aware that I said otherwise or made any arguements about rights, wrongs and wherefores.

 

[Mr Fraser]

Did UN declare something about Palestine as well? And the Israel settlements ?

I wonder how many commenter have read declaration of independence. Borders part is interesting

 

[arbabarshad]

They've spouted plenty, but mainly from the viewpoint of the OIC !

So they've spouted plenty about the state of Palestine and Illegal Israel settlements. But they've spoken the truth about the Israel's right to exist.

A bit like everything i say is the truth when its in your favour but its spouting when its not in your favour.

 

[splinter]

Not long off going global..back to aldi to replenish the cider. Might need something stronger

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So they've spouted plenty about the state of Palestine and Illegal Israel settlements. But they've spoken the truth about the Israel's right to exist.

A bit like everything i say is the truth when its in your favour but its spouting when its not in your favour.

The right of a state to exist isn't a concept in international law.

The right of self-determination is what exists in international law.

 

[blueinsa]

It’s funny that Jews and Muslims have lived together throughout the world without killing each other, there are still some small communities left, but you are taking this to extremes, this is not a war against Islam, and your are kind of turning it that way.

And it’s strange how some far right groups in this country have latched on to this war and the brutality, back in the day it was the Jews who were the target for their hate, and all the same arguments were trotted out about the Jews and Judaism as are being trotted out about Islam and Muslims, they just need a minority group who they can’t understand or never try to understand

I hope you are not one those people, it’s a deep rabbit hole to fall into

It’s nothing to do with being right wing and everything to do with being of a position that says terrorists and death cults like Hamas, ISIS etc have no place in this world.

To try and suggest holding that opinion makes you right wing or disappearing down some rabbit hole is rubbish but sadly, par for the course on here at least.

Thankfully off here and away from social media, a majority agree.

 

[MouldensChippy]

So they've spouted plenty about the state of Palestine and Illegal Israel settlements. But they've spoken the truth about the Israel's right to exist.

A bit like everything i say is the truth when its in your favour but its spouting when its not in your favour.

No, if you checked you may find that the UN has changed more than a little over the years. In 1948 there were 58 members. The OIC have 57 members, of which 56 are UN members.

Now there are over 190 members, and groups formed within that that 'promote' special interests. We now have some of the larger human rights abusers sat on the boards that deal with human rights for instance.

 

[Berts Neck]

It's not walking back anything. Jewish settlers formed terrorist groups and carried out a campaign of violence, which included targeting civilians.

The British withdrew in response to the chaos.

Why do you ignore the UN's declaration that Israeli settlements are illegal?

Mr. Kobayashi, I have read your comments and agree with you!! So please do not take these points as a criticism !! I have clearly stated before, that other than the recent Hamas attack, I have taken a Pro Palestinian approach to this conflict. The danger comes when people start making comments that without proper research could be flawed.Much like us being led on with chat of WMD in Iraq. Now I stand to be corrected, and any comments are welcome. I have taken time to listen to the Israeli side of this matter and perhaps was a little surprised.

1. Illegal Israeli settlements. I feel that many people refer to UN Resolutions which are not legally binding.
2.Only the UN Security Council can create a final lawful situation. This has not yet happened.
3. I suspect when people discuss illegality, they may also be referring to Charter 49 of the Geneva Convention of which indeed the Israelis are in breach. But this does assume an illegal occupation.
4.In 1922 the League of Nations Council agreed that Palestine in total was to become the home of the Israelis but under a British Mandate. It did also say however that the rights of Palestinians were to be observed.Israelis argue that this in fact is the only binding agreement. But one can also argue that they failed to protect the rights of the Palestinians.
5.It does not help that the USA and Britain quite often abstain from UN votes on these matters.

Finally..I urge anyone who has Netflix to watch BORN IN GAZA..this documentary pre-dates this current crisis. In truth Gaza is a hell hole and the Palestinians have been treated abysmally.I could barely watch it,shocking footage.

 

[arbabarshad]

No, if you checked you may find that the UN has changed more than a little over the years. In 1948 there were 58 members. The OIC have 57 members, of which 56 are UN members.

Now there are over 190 members, and groups formed within that that 'promote' special interests. We now have some of the larger human rights abusers sat on the boards that deal with human rights for instance.

Human rights ? Do they only exist for certain communities ? Do Palestinians have human rights?
Should a western country decide what human rights people of Middle Eastern countries have?
If west is adamant to have a standard charter of human rights, then why that is not applied to the rights of people of Palestine or Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria or Libya and so on … ?

Or do they only care about the human rights of people who identify themselves with the western values ? In essence they defend the western values rather than rights of humans who happen to identify themselves with the western values. If the same people changed their mind on the western values, would the west still talk about their rights? No, they’ll say they deserve to suffer because they have such backward (in west’s view) values.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It's also a state created by Terrorism.

And a state that decided to help the terrorists it now fights in order to divide and rule and prolong the limbo of the Palestinians.

Ridiculous, moronic and totally ignorant statement albeit typical of some, fortunately a minority, on here who love to spout cliches about this situation.

Israel is a democratic state, founded democratically by a vote at the UN. It's amusing how those who decry Israel for not accepting UN resolutions, refuse to accept the most crucial one in the history of the region and also fail to recognise that the actions of the Arab bloc had consequences. As actions do.

Had the Arab side accepted partition, things may have turned out differently. But they didn't, and that led to them (a) attacking Israel en masse, (b) losing quite a bit of the territory assigned to them in the Partition Plan and (c) creating a lot of refugees among the Palestinian people in the former Mandate. No war, no refugees.

After 1948, Gaza was under military occupation, but by Egypt, not Israel, and the West Bank was annexed, not by Israeli settlers but by Jordan. But the people screaming about Israel "occupying" Gaza and creeping annexation of the West Bank didn't seem to get too incensed about that. And if the 1948 war had turned out differentl, with a total Arab victory, then the territory would have been claimed by Syria, as part of its fantasy 'Greater Syria', which included most of that part of the world and even parts of the Arabian Peninsula.

Nasser rattled his sabres in 1967 and closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and forcing the removal of the UN peacekeeping force in Sinai, despite Israel making it clear that these would be a causus belli. Yet he still went ahead and did that, leading to the Six Day War. That left Israel in control of Gaza and the West Bank, leading to the current situation. Actions, yet again, having consequences.

Then there was the rise of Palestinian terrorism, leading to the Munich Olympic massacre in 1972 and other notorious events. Followed by the 1973 Yom Kippur War, when Israel was attacked without provocation.

That's not to excuse the actions of the more recent Israeli governments, fuelled by the rise of the right-wing settler movement and the governments that have enabled and encouraged that. And of course those actions have had consequences as well.

And the notion that Hamas are somehow noble freedom fighters is completely simplistic and utterly wrong. Hamas clearly don't care one bit for their fellow Palestinian. In fact, as we're seeing now, they see hem as collateral damage in a wider ideological struggle financed and fuelled by the religious fanatics in Iran (who aren't even Arabs). The more innocents who die, the more they run their hands in glee and capitalise on it via their propagenda.