Middle East Conflict

[Prestwich_Blue]

So in your scenario the vanquished, even if not combatants, are relocated either by force or under their own volition? Sounds like a a recipe for future conflict that’s as the banished seek a return to their property.

The point was that the Palestinian Arabs weren't simply sitting there minding their own business when the Jews turned up out of the blue.

 

[The Salford lad.]

Actions speak louder than words , open the border Egypt , … oh wait

 

[mexico1970]

Is that the place next to Moss Side?

His name was Davy whom I sat next to in class.

 

[SWP's back]

Surely Hamas and Hezbollah are a product of the conditions under which Palestinian people are having to live though? Clearly nobody condones the massacre and gleeful murder/torture of Israeli civilians, but I am keen to understand what the correct response iswhen Israeli forces are bulldozing Palestinian settlements and dispossessing Palestinian people in contravention of international law? What is the correct response to blockades? Israeli forces have unlawfully killed and injured Palestinian civilians who have protested against having their land confiscated. The IDF regularly engages in the harassment and intimidation of the civilian population. Surely the violence being inflicted on the Palestinian people is never going to be met with a non-violent response, but what kind of violence is acceptable to the international community?

A peaceful resolution/two state solution clearly can't involve a Hamas government going forward, but there's also no way that an ultra nationalist far right government like the one Israel currently has can move us to that point either.

Not sure Hezbollah are a product of anything related to the Palestinians tbf.

 

[The Salford lad.]

Maybe Egypt won’t open the border, after seeing what happened in Lebanon in 1975 …

 

[supercity88]

Surely Hamas and Hezbollah are a product of the conditions under which Palestinian people are having to live though? Clearly nobody condones the massacre and gleeful murder/torture of Israeli civilians, but I am keen to understand what the correct response iswhen Israeli forces are bulldozing Palestinian settlements and dispossessing Palestinian people in contravention of international law? What is the correct response to blockades? Israeli forces have unlawfully killed and injured Palestinian civilians who have protested against having their land confiscated. The IDF regularly engages in the harassment and intimidation of the civilian population. Surely the violence being inflicted on the Palestinian people is never going to be met with a non-violent response, but what kind of violence is acceptable to the international community?

A peaceful resolution/two state solution clearly can't involve a Hamas government going forward, but there's also no way that an ultra nationalist far right government like the one Israel currently has can move us to that point either.

The conditions make it easier to convince people that extremism is the answer, but it's worth remembering that even if they had things really good in their own territory they'd still want to destroy Israel and remove Jewish people from what they believe is their land. A peaceful resolution/two state solution will never be achieved regardless of the conditions in my opinion.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Another one framing the narrative as "these fucking Jews turned up out the blue and turfed these peaceful Arabs out at gunpoint". It makes a great story but it's plain, fucking wrong.

Let's reframe your analogy slightly therefore to make it more accurate.

Let's say Manchester & Birmingham were one territory, called Mercia for example, with two different tribes. The UK parliament votes to split Mercia and call one part 'Manchester' and the other 'Birmingham'.

Manchester is happy with that but Birmingham isn't and attacks Manchester. Not only that, they get Yorkshire, Northumbria and Wales to join in with them. Their intention is to wipe Mancunians out and throw them off the territory.

Against the odds Manchester holds out and even turns the tables somewhat, ending up in control of places like Stoke & Stafford. Some of those residents are forced out but others make their own decision to leave and decamp to Wolverhampton.

Does Manchester hold out miraculously with the backing of America or some other country?
Just asking, trying to get my own head around this whole hypothesis.

 

[Eds]

What fallacies? That Israelis live on land that their grand parents never did whilst the Palestinians whose grand parents did are wallowing in an open prison.
They're not attacking Egypt because Egypt didn't take their land. Wise up.

Think it's you that might need the history lessons. Presume you are fine with the Egyptians blockading them then, it's just Israel you have the issue with.

 

[Eebo]

Please can someone explain to me what Israel is aiming to achieve by bombing Gaza in the way it is, apart from vengeance.

Am I being asked to believe that Israel knew for sure there was at least one Hamas militant in each building?
If that is the case am I supposed to accept that that justifies any civilian deaths, including children?

I have to say I am finding it very difficult to see the difference between the Russian terrorist state bombing of target Cities in Ukraine and the Israeli bombing of Gaza.

The only difference I can see is that in Ukraine most of the civilian population has left the most heavily bombed cities and that in the large and densely populated centres there are strong air defences that reduce the impact on civilians.

 

[mexico1970]

The only difference I can see is that in Ukraine most of the civilian population has left the most heavily bombed cities and that in the large and densely populated centres there are strong air defences that reduce the impact on civilians.

Ukraine didn't use it's own citizens as human shields, Ukraine didn't kill a couple of thousand civilians by entering Russia and committing acts of horror.

Apart from that it's the same yes.

Even saying that the Israelis should stop the bombing IMHO.