Middle East Conflict

[The Future’s Blue!]

It’s just easier to spell

What, cunts can’t spell?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The population of Ottoman Palestine is difficult to estimate because:

1) There was no administrative district of Palestine. Ottoman census figures were for various districts, e.g. the Jerusalem, Acco and Nablus districts. The Acre district included areas in Lebanon, outside the borders of historic Palestine;

2) Both Arabs and Jews avoided the Turkish census for three reasons: a) to avoid taxes, b) to avoid military conscription, and c) to avoid questions of illegal residence;

3) The census figures didn’t include Bedouins (likely numbering over 100,000) and foreign subjects (i.e. individuals with foreign citizenship, without Ottoman residency status) of which there were about 10,000 Jews.

Nevertheless, the Ottoman census of 1878 indicated the following demographics for the Jerusalem, Nablus, and Acre districts:

Census Group	Population	Percentage
Muslim	403,795	85.5
Christian	43,659	9.2
Jewish	15,001	3.2
Jewish (Foreign-born)	Est. 10,000	2.1
Total:	472,455	100.0

Yeah very “sparse”.

There are currently 10 million in Israel, the West Bank & Gaza. There's over 2m in the Gaza Strip alone.

So I'd say, compared to that, 5% is sparse. And that 472k probably included about 150k who came in from Egypt and Syria around the mid-19th century.

 

[urban genie]

People calling that **** ‘Bibi’ is akin to others calling our own **** ‘Boris’. Fucking Bibi ffs.

with my sausage fingers it is quicker to use on a long post than netanyahu

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

with my sausage fingers it is quicker to use on a long post than netanyahu

I’ll make an exception with you x

 

[halfcenturyup]

Wonderful whataboutary.

Deflections and whataboutery. Two terms to be used when you know you don't actually have the arguments to win a debate.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Nazis yes. Stalin killed a lot of Russians but the main pogroms that took place were well before his time. The Tsarist regime were responsible for 2 19th century pogroms whilst during Bolshevik and subsequent civil war there was a 3rd major progrom carried out by retreating White Army brigades. One part of the Red Army was involved, they were Ukrainians, and we're court-martialled for their crimes.
My source was a Jewish history page.

Here is a question. Why is it that people if the Jewish faith have had so many problems with persecution, most notably Germany and Russia historically, of course, but also the US and most of Europe there is still a small but significant anti-Jewish sentiment.

Is it a problem of lack of integration? Jealousy that they are generally more successful than other ethnic groupings? The fact that certain have a unique appearance that makes the stand out? Or is it simply religious?

Speaking as someone who has no prejudice towards anyone on any racial, ethnic, or religious grounds, I have never understood this.

I would be interested to hear views.

 

[bumbleblue]

I have considered posting this a few times but for some reason held back. My late dad served in Palestine in the 1940s. Saw his friends and colleagues injured and killed by both sides. He always said that the Jewish folk were desperate to build something of their own after the Second World War and felt sorry for them as the truths of the death camps were coming to light etc. He also said that he didn’t think there would ever be an easy solution in the years to come. His actual words were if anything or anyone ever comes for Israel they would see the Middle East alight before backing down. It’s playing on my mind a lot watching this unfathomable horror unfold.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Any court case could be interesting, proving that she is

"A person who uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, abusive or insulting, is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he intends thereby to stir up racial hatred, or

(b) having regard to all the circumstances racial hatred is likely to be stirred up thereby."


"My client's defence is that Israel is led by a man who advocates ethnic cleansing, and that's what is stirring up racial hatred, not her displaying material pointing that out."

All these recent public order offences could be interesting if anyone had the time and resources to challenge them.

Most people don't and just have to accept them, of course.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It’s just fact.

I suppose that depends on whether you think land gained by conquest becomes part of the victor's country or whether it remains a separate territory as part of an "empire". I doubt the Ottomans called Palestine what, for the sake of the argument I shall call, Turkey, or the British referred to it as Britain.

I suspect the Ottomans gave the territory a name along the lines of Palestine when they "owned" it, as the British did when they "owned" it. My point being: surely there was a territory that was identifiably Palestine whether it was the Ottomans or the British that it "belonged to"?

 

[Vic]

There are currently 10 million in Israel, the West Bank & Gaza. There's over 2m in the Gaza Strip alone.

So I'd say, compared to that, 5% is sparse. And that 472k probably included about 150k who came in from Egypt and Syria around the mid-19th century.

But it was never "a land without people for a people without land". The Highlands were sparsely populated, especially after the Clearances. So was "the West" as in how the West was won. It's a sparse argument in favour of colonisation.