Middle East Conflict

Prestwich_Blue said:
They were offered a homeland in 1948. They turned it down, while the Jews accepted.

They've turned down every opportunity for one since. They've never recognised Israel's right to exist. They've had control of Gaza for 18 years, and instead of looking after the people there and doing their best to make something of it, they've dug tunnels, amassed arms and flung rockets at Israel. They're more interested in killing Jews than building a state of their own.
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It was Palestinian land,they had no say in the matter, here lads we're taking x amount of land and you can have the rest and Israel have stolen land ever since.
Like most countries Israel is built on the blood and bodies of another but all these years later Israel is still building on the blood and bodies of another all the while trying to claim they're a civilised country.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
Not really a war, in wars the warring factions usually meet each other face to face but terrorists (or the “guerillas” you mention) are too cowardly for that shit…
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What like they all meet up in a field like in Brave heart? Do you think there were never any Israeli 'guerillas' ever? In the history of the state? What about the french resistance in WW2, they were cowards right?
 
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Shadz69 said:
It was Palestinian land,they had no say in the matter, here lads we're taking x amount of land and you can have the rest and Israel have stolen land ever since.
Like most countries Israel is built on the blood and bodies of another but all these years later Israel is still building on the blood and bodies of another all the while trying to claim they're a civilised country.
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Making arguments that one's land belongs to the other whilst nullifying the others existence is what is fuelling this war.

1) Israel has taken Palestinian lands and oppressed the Palestinian people, yes agreed
2) Israel however does have a right to exist, is that also agreed?

When it comes to physically enacting the above how can anybody possibly reconcile the two?

Those on the more extreme end of the Palestinian argument will say that Israel has no right to that land so what is the solution? To keep fighting Israel until Israel is gone? The simple answer is that both must come to coexist within the same state or reach some agreement on coexisting seperately.

The biggest problem is the leaderships of the extremists on both sides aren't aligned to this. As much as Hamas had to be eliminated from the equation this Israeli regime must also be reduced and prevented from achieving its greater aim to eliminate the Palestinian cause. Unfortunately that part isn't being recognised in the west and it should be.
 
Shadz69 said:
It was Palestinian land,they had no say in the matter, here lads we're taking x amount of land and you can have the rest and Israel have stolen land ever since.
Like most countries Israel is built on the blood and bodies of another but all these years later Israel is still building on the blood and bodies of another all the while trying to claim they're a civilised country.
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inbetween said:
Making arguments that one's land belongs to the other whilst nullifying the others existence is what is fuelling this war.

1) Israel has taken Palestinian lands and oppressed the Palestinian people, yes agreed
2) Israel however does have a right to exist, is that also agreed?

When it comes to physically enacting the above how can anybody possibly reconcile the two?

Those on the more extreme end of the Palestinian argument will say that Israel has no right to that land so what is the solution? To keep fighting Israel until Israel is gone? The simple answer is that both must come to coexist within the same state or reach some agreement on coexisting seperately.

The biggest problem is the leaderships of the extremists on both sides aren't aligned to this. As much as Hamas had to be eliminated from the equation this Israeli regime must also be reduced and prevented from achieving its greater aim to eliminate the Palestinian cause. Unfortunately that part isn't being recognised in the west and it should be.
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Serious question though

How do the Palestinians get their stolen land back and stop the Occupation?

There's just less than Zero percent chance those Settlers are giving the land back, It's just going to be more expansion.
 
Blue and true said:
Ah yes, all those brave IDF soldiers dropping bombs on women and children in schools, hospitals and refugee camps.

Fucking idiot.
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Terrorists using humans shields, hiding in schools, hospitals and refugee camps, because they’re cowards.

Might want to think of that before you start calling people fucking idiots.
 
inbetween said:
2) Israel however does have a right to exist, is that also agreed?
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The right to exist is a red herring.

If a Palestinians accepts the Israeli right to exist they also accept that the theft of their land and expulsion was justified.

Israel is the only country that demands this right. For other countries it is enough to recognise their current borders and government.

Self-determination is about people not states. And the self-determination of zionists settlers should have never trumped the self-determination of the previously peaceful people living there.

I don't think there's ever going to be peace in a region when one society sets themselves up as special and more moral and then pursues peptual war to continue theft of land and natural resources and then cries that the world owes them a debt and plays the victim when the people they regard as below them bite back.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
The right to exist is a red herring.

If a Palestinians accepts the Israeli right to exist they also accept that the theft of their land and expulsion was justified.

Israel is the only country that demands this right. For other countries it is enough to recognise their current borders and government.

Self-determination is about people not states. And the self-determination of zionists settlers should have never trumped the self-determination of the previously peaceful people living there.

I don't think there's ever going to be peace in a region when one society sets themselves up as special and more moral and then pursues peptual war to continue theft of land and natural resources and then cries that the world owes them a debt and plays the victim when the people they regard as below them bite back.
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The right to exist is not a red herring, self determination in the sense of existence is correct, obviously it is not correct in the sense of determining which lands you own.

Are you saying that Israel should not exist at all or that it merely must return to the 1967 borders, or something else? I am talking of a peaceful settlement on the lines of Israel returning to what is agreed and legal, and a Palestinian state coexists alongside that.

Most Arab countries are ready to recognise Israel if it returns to the 1967 borders except for the extremists such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Yemen etc. Those just want Israel to disappear into the sand which quite clearly is not going to happen.
 
inbetween said:
The right to exist is not a red herring, self determination in the sense of existence is correct, obviously it is not correct in the sense of determining which lands you own.
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It is for reasons below. Israel never demands recognition of it's right to exist within the 1967 borders does it? Because it doesn't recognise those borders itself.

inbetween said:
Are you saying that Israel should not exist at all or that it merely must return to the 1967 borders, or something else? I am talking of a peaceful settlement on the lines of Israel returning to what is agreed and legal, and a Palestinian state coexists alongside that.
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Even the 1967 borders are a practical fudge. Because those are not the borders created at partition. Israel demands that everyone has to respect it's right to exist and we accept it was okay for them to take territory and drive Palestinians out. When the children and grandchildren of those Palestinians seek to do the same. They are terrorists but the Hagganah and Irgun weren't.

I am against the Zionist state. I am against Zionism. I don't see any value in idealogies of racial supremacy. Israel isn't going to surrender territory in exchange for peace. It just is going to happen. I regard Israel as the the chief troublemaker in the region. For as long as there is a Zionist Israel there will be wars with their neighbours.

inbetween said:
Most Arab countries are ready to recognise Israel if it returns to the 1967 borders except for the extremists such as Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Yemen etc. Those just want Israel to disappear into the sand which quite clearly is not going to happen.
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mondoweiss.net

Chomsky on Israel’s ‘Right to Exist’

The other night at the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue, Anne Roiphe said that she could have dialogue with anyone except me, because as a non/anti-Zionist, I was denying the right of Israel to exist.
mondoweiss.net mondoweiss.net
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
To be fair, Labour went early to call for a ceasefire and when in power, took the legal advice to suspend offensive munitions and only allowed defensive exports. Why the Conservatives didn’t do it, I’ll never know as they probably had the same legal advice to support their decision.

I heard a stat that Gaza is now 70% rubble, with many bodies lay underneath. This alone should have the Israeli government up in The Hague, and I do hope the world is strong enough to ensure it happens.
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It's all on Hamas. They hide in their tunnels and leave their ppl to take it. The leaders are billionaires whilst their ppl suffer. Any fool can see this.
 
Vic said:
I thought they were being sarcastic. How awful to protest at arms dealers selling anti-personnel weapons for use on civilians.
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Any thoughts on how awful 7/10 was on civilians and how over 60,000 Israeli civilians cannot return home including Arabs and Christians ?
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
To be fair, Labour went early to call for a ceasefire and when in power, took the legal advice to suspend offensive munitions and only allowed defensive exports. Why the Conservatives didn’t do it, I’ll never know as they probably had the same legal advice to support their decision.

I heard a stat that Gaza is now 70% rubble, with many bodies lay underneath. This alone should have the Israeli government up in The Hague, and I do hope the world is strong enough to ensure it happens.
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Why ceasefire ?? Will mean the terrorists re arm and the conflict is dragged out. Any fool can see that.
 
The blue phantom said:
I'm hearing fuckall off the Labour top brass regarding the Mass Murder taking place. Thing is I'm near certain they'd have the publics support for totally cutting all ties with Israel.

They won't though and are all in with the Yanks. Bastards the lot of them to which History won't forget.
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The terrorists I Israel are going to defeat will cause havoc in Europe... they hate you, your family, western culture and values. Smell the coffee.
 
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