Middle East Conflict

goalmole said:
Wikipedia isn't the place to go to confirm a current or evolving story.
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Sigh I'd seen it on tv earlier that they were mostly made by themselves , I simply went to get you something worded better and as wiki matched the report I judged that as acceptable , and I'd say its more realistic than ' a report '
 
goalmole said:
Heard a report today saying that the rockets used by Hamas were the same ones, and I don't mean the same type, that the Americans had supplied to the Ukrainians.
I wonder how they got to Hamas.
Couldn't possibly be the cuddly democratic Ukrainians who we've all been cheerleading for for the last 18 months lining their own pockets by selling armaments donated to them to fight the Russians, could it?
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Yeah I can just see Ukraine selling weapons to the Iranian backed Hamas. The same Iran who are currently supplying large amounts of weaponry to Russia.

Where was this report?

Nothing to do with Medvedev talking shit is it? Because there's a post on the Ukraine thread that highlighted this Kremlin propaganda bullshit before.
 
Vic said:
The BBC has a BBC Verify banner for when they've verified something... They're going to be busy. And Mark Urban on Newsnight saying they can't verify it.
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I was talking about the website. Time isn't really an excuse for not adding quotation marks to the bits that are unverified quotations. My BBC News front page literally has two other stories on it right now that have quotation marks in the headline. Let's not pretend the person writing the headline is the one in the warzone.
 
goalmole said:
Heard a report today saying that the rockets used by Hamas were the same ones, and I don't mean the same type, that the Americans had supplied to the Ukrainians.
I wonder how they got to Hamas.
Couldn't possibly be the cuddly democratic Ukrainians who we've all been cheerleading for for the last 18 months lining their own pockets by selling armaments donated to them to fight the Russians, could it?
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No. In a region with numerous ongoing conflicts, armed factions and outside armies (Russia, Turkey) engaged in active fighting, the one thing no one is short of is weapons.

Also, Hamas - Iran - Russia. None of these are on Ukraine’s Xmas card list and Ukraine is very pro-Israel.
 
goalmole said:
Heard a report today saying that the rockets used by Hamas were the same ones, and I don't mean the same type, that the Americans had supplied to the Ukrainians.
I wonder how they got to Hamas.
Couldn't possibly be the cuddly democratic Ukrainians who we've all been cheerleading for for the last 18 months lining their own pockets by selling armaments donated to them to fight the Russians, could it?
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Dear me
 
The blue phantom said:
Wait until potentially thousands of innocent children are in bodybags while this siege is going on and see which way public opinion shifts.
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When terrorists use their own citizens as human shields, is Israel supposed to warn Hamas where and when it will bomb a building….SO THEY CAN MOVE THE PEOPLE AND THE ROCKETS?? WTAF?!

War is hell and innocents die. It’s the nature of the urban guerilla terrorism that Hamas is known for, so what EXACTLY is Israel to do?

What did Hamas do at the festival? Did they care? Or how about kidnapping child hostages?

One side has “written the rules” of this engagement and the other is going to execute their response with extreme prejudice. That’s the whole point of having an assymetric threat! If you’re provoked and do not use it, what message do you send?

TBH, I think Israel has been somewhat muted in their response so far, even as they amass on the Gaza border. What happens next will be determined by Hamas!

Give up the hostages, stop firing the rockets, disappear back into the sewers or get fucked up. No easy solutions, only the brute force that some people require to be made to listen.

Life, esp the life of other, has become less meaningful to those who would do harm. Things like the Geneva Convention seem quaint when thinking about the outrageous violence people rain down on others, yet it is always backed by talk of being righteous.

Innocents die, yet ideology never changes and zealotry prevails for another generation, based on the evil wrought upon you and your family.

And the Sun rises again in the East.
 
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SWP's back said:
If that’s happening AND Hamas are cutting civilians heads off and live streaming it at the same time then only a **** should be rooting for either of them.
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Solution???

Do you think British bombs didn’t kill German children? Are you agnostic on WWII or was Churchill just as big of a **** as Hitler? What are your feelings on the children of Coventry???
 
BobKowalski said:
No. In a region with numerous ongoing conflicts, armed factions and outside armies (Russia, Turkey) engaged in active fighting, the one thing no one is short of is weapons.

Also, Hamas - Iran - Russia. None of these are on Ukraine’s Xmas card list and Ukraine is very pro-Israel.
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If, and it's a big if, Hamas has got hold of weaponry supplied to Ukraine it would be captured weaponry handed over by Russia to Iran and moved on to Hamas from there. I think we can all imagine who that would benefit.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
When terrorists use their own citizens as human shields, is Israel supposed to warn Hamas where and when it will bomb a building….SO THEY CAN MOVE THE PEOPLE AND THE ROCKETS?? WTAF?!

War is hell and innocents die. It’s the nature of the urban guerilla terrorism that Hamas is known for, so what EXACTLY is Israel to do?
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Oh, please. The IDF have been targeting civilian sites for decades and have never given a shit about those casualties because they faced zero repercussions.

And, no, this isn't a defence of anything Hamas has done but it is disingenuous to act like Israel have at any point been legitimately considerate of the lives of Palestinian citizens.
 
The Stockport Iniesta said:
If, and it's a big if, Hamas has got hold of weaponry supplied to Ukraine it would be captured weaponry handed over by Russia to Iran and moved on to Hamas from there. I think we can all imagine who that would benefit.
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I am sceptical about the story but it could be captured weaponry or corrupt Ukrainian officials have been bribed.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
When terrorists use their own citizens as human shields, is Israel supposed to warn Hamas where and when it will bomb a building….SO THEY CAN MOVE THE PEOPLE AND THE ROCKETS?? WTAF?!

War is hell and innocents die. It’s the nature of the urban guerilla terrorism that Hamas is known for, so what EXACTLY is Israel to do?

What did Hamas do at the festival? Did they care? Or how about kidnapping child hostages?

One side has “written the rules” of this engagement and the other is going to execute their response with extreme prejudice. That’s the whole point of having an assymetric threat! If you’re provoked and do not use it, what message do you send?

TBH, I think Israel has been somewhat muted in their response so far, even as they amass on the Gaza border. What happens next will be determined by Hamas!

Give up the hostages, stop firing the rockets, disappear back into the sewers or get fucked up. No easy solutions, only the brute force that some people require to be made to listen.

Life, esp the life of other, has become less meaningful to those who would do harm. Things like the Geneva Convention seem quaint when thinking about the outrageous violence people rain down on others, yet it is always backed by talk of being righteous.

Innocents die, yet ideology never changes and zealotry prevails for another generation, based on the evil wrought upon you and your family.

And the Sun rises again in the East.
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The reason Israel’s response may appear muted to some posters might be because they were caught so unaware by the terrorists. Not just the attacks on the rave and villages but also by the tank busting kit Hams had access to. Piling straight into Gaza without a thorough and up to date assessment of the terrorists” capability could have proven a graveyard for many more Israeli soldiers, especially given the layout of Gaza.

It’s far safer for Israeli forces to be bombing Gaza from the skies until the Israeli army are ready to invade Gaza and they have a robust intelligence assessment of what awaits them. It’s not a charitable decision.
 
Wait until the bring Iran into it, I don’t think Israel will hold back and anyone that slits babies throats deserve only the worst.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
The reason Israel’s response may appear muted to some posters might be because they were caught so unaware by the terrorists. Not just the attacks on the rave and villages but also by the tank busting kit Hams had access to. Piling straight into Gaza without a thorough and up to date assessment of the terrorists” capability could have proven a graveyard for many more Israeli soldiers, especially given the layout of Gaza.

It’s far safer for Israeli forces to be bombing Gaza from the skies until the Israeli army are ready to invade Gaza and they have a robust intelligence assessment of what awaits them. It’s not a charitable decision.
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100% true, there will be nothing left of Gaza after a couple of weeks, this has given the Israel an excuse to flatten it.

Hamas must have known that, so the worry is how the Arab world will react.
 
Hamas had a choice.

Go up against the IDF solely or attack Israeli civilians in what was nothing other than a terrorist attack on a scale the world has barely ever seen before.

They chose civilians because to them, all Israelis are targets and they want them all wiped from the face of the Earth and they did so knowing full well how Israel would respond.

Israel has an absolute right to defend itself and to beat it’s enemies.

The siege of Gaza, the suffering of the poor majority of peaceful Palestinians in Gaza is down to Hamas and its actions. My only concern is the stopping of Food, water and medicine which is a step too far.
 
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