Middle East Conflict

[SWP's back]

Haven't the Israeli air force hit targets in Iran before? I'm sure they have, I was thinking something along those lines might be Israel's response to Iranian funding and training of hamas?

Yes it’s well within their range and Iran’s AA cover is shite, mainly because it’s Russian.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Just on that last sentence, are there not more Palestinian’s now alive than at any other point in their history? (Well before this latest round of Israeli air strikes)

If so, then is it correct to say they’ve been ethnically cleansed?

Ethnic cleansing isn't about numbers is it? It's about forcing a group out so that a region becomes ethnically homogenous?

 

[halfcenturyup]

Yes it’s well within their range and Iran’s AA cover is shite, mainly because it’s Russian.

How is Qatar with Iran these days? Hamas leaders still living there?

 

[Mon Autre]

Who has eluded to the fact all Palestinians are barbaric ? Hammas are barbaric , they don't even care about the civilians they govern

But the response to actions of Hamas at the moment appears to have been to collectively punish an entire group of people. Many of whom do not support Hamas (whose support hasn't been tested in an election since 2006).

My point is, if somebody within the Israeli administration or military has invented a story about babies being beheaded then it's important to ask why they done that. And this applies to any of the horrendous stories that are emerging from both sides of the divide. This is such a terrifying and heartbreaking state of affairs with huge far reaching consequences. We all really need to view everything we're being told through a massively critical lens.

 

[SWP's back]

Solution???

Do you think British bombs didn’t kill German children? Are you agnostic on WWII or was Churchill just as big of a **** as Hitler? What are your feelings on the children of Coventry???

Solution is to not cut off food, water and aid to civilians as per the Geneva Convention with it being a war crime.

Build as many strawmen as you want, I’m not dignifying such idiocy with a rebuttal, suffice to say I’ve forgotten more about WW2 than you’ll ever know.

 

[SWP's back]

How is Qatar with Iran these days? Hamas leaders still living there?

Semi-friendly much to Saudi’s distaste as they share a huge gas field (was one of the reasons for the previous blockade).

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

We can argue the rights and wrongs of the origins of the conflict in the middle east and it will get us nowhere. The desire of Jews for a homeland that will provide security is still some way from realisation: the bitter resentment of Palestinians at what they believe is an unjustifiable exclusion from their homeland is clear to all. But events appear determined to make problems worse rather than better. Hamas is not a body intent on find ing a solution which helps foster harmony in the region. Its actions since Saturday morning are precisely those of a terrorist organisation bent on inflaming hatred and terrorising Israelis. According to latest figures 1200 at least are dead as a result of Hamas's actions. Hamas cannot be surprised by Israel's response. It may be argued that Israel's government is hard line and right wing and extreme and that their actions are not proportionate or moderate and victimise the innocent. This may or may not be true but the argument is irrelevant. The Israeli response was never going to be inspired by principles of moderation and proportionality. Israel has some very clear objectives, the first of which is security. The breaching of Israel's borders must have been a traumatic blow and there will be searching questions asked of Israeli intelligences, but at the moment the aim will be to evict Hamas terrorists from Israel and then to ensure they are incapable of such incursions for a very long time, if ever. A second clear objective is to secure the release of those taken as hostages. It seems unlikely this can be achieved through negotiation so as yet it is hard to see how they can be helped. What is clear is that the cause of a settlement in the region is more unrealistic than ever, but, as long as Hamas (and Iran?) don't want one, and elements in Israel are unsure, the region will remain the prey of atrocity and retaliation.

 

[blueinsa]

Solution is to not cut off food, water and aid to civilians as per the Geneva Convention with it being a war crime.

I’m behind Israel all the way here but completely agree with this, it’s just not acceptable.

 

[SWP's back]

You know waving a Palestinian flag in no way is saying I support Hamas?

Which is odd as waving an English flag is often found to be akin to being a fan of the EDL on here.

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

And yet, they are still there, and even quoted in Hamas charters.
BTW, I can't in all honesty take ED Husain (former Islamist, and now money maker off the back of it seriously)

Oh yes, the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of of Israel, doesn't it?

As for Husain, I have The Islamist and his most recent publication Among the Mosques. But I haven't got around to either of them yet.

Nevertheless, I still think it is worth getting behind prominent Muslims like Husain, Ziauddin Sardar, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Sara Khan and Shiraz Maher, who have set themselves against the Salafi-jihadists, the Iranian theocracy, the Taliban and other extremists, for the simple reason that some of them have been saying that they are up against it, as they are contending with the Saudis, who have been using their oil wealth to spread the Wahhabi message of intolerance here, there and everywhere.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Think about that statement.

If the IRA suddenly bombed Manchester again this time killing hundreds then would you be okay with Irish Republican solidarity groups suddenly coming out to fly the Irish flag in central Manchester?

I'm not associating the Palestinian flag with terrorists but I am associating the people carrying it with *possibly* supporting terrorism.

Glorification of terrorist groups is illegal, it's a very fine line in my opinion.

possibly? Thats a big judgement to make

 

[SWP's back]

I am getting a little concerned that Hezbolla may get involved, they are very well armed and motivated and numerous, a regional conflict is not what we need

Again I see the hand of Russia controlling their new puppet Iran, it’s suits them down to the ground

I’m not thrilled at the idea but I am also of the opinion that Hezbolla would last about ten minutes if they wanted to serious have a go at Israel.

 

[MouldensChippy]

Oh yes, the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of of Israel, doesn't it?

As for Husain, I have The Islamist and his most recent publication Among the Mosques. But I haven't got around to either of them yet.

Nevertheless, I still think it is worth getting behind prominent Muslims like Husain, Ziauddin Sardar, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Sara Khan and Shiraz Maher, who have set themselves against the Salafi-jihadists, the Iranian theocracy, the Taliban and other extremists, for the simple reason that some of them have been saying that they are up against it, as they are contending with the Saudis, who have been using their oil wealth to spread the Wahhabi message of intolerance here, there and everywhere.

Yet the Saudis were formally arranging diplomatic relations with Isreal until the events of this weekend. (more a case of building alliances against Iran than of being friends is my guess)

Bluster matters not, the passages inciting violence, and hatred are still there, and are still being used, and cannot be changed. They can't even be 'reeled back' because of abrogation where the earlier passages of peace are replaced (for all time) by the later passages.

 

[goalmole]

Around 20 years ago, the number of world conflicts was really on the wane.

Perhaps if we stopped making and selling weapons....

Again, great idea, just never going to happen.

 

[goalmole]

Just trust the Daily Mail.

Lol

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Just on that last sentence, are there not more Palestinian’s now alive than at any other point in their history? (Well before this latest round of Israeli air strikes)

If so, then is it correct to say they’ve been ethnically cleansed?

What would you describe 500 villages destroyed, 15000 slaughtered, 700,000 expelled from their homes and that was just during the Nakba. What we’ve witnessed since is a slow systematic ethnic cleansing and it’ll be turned up a few notches in the coming days & weeks of that I have no doubt. This has played right into the Bibi the butcher’s hands. The thought of what the IDF are going to the Palestinian civilians doesn’t bare thinking about based on their history.

 

[west didsblue]

You know waving a Palestinian flag in no way is saying I support Hamas?

Doing it within 24 hours of a terrorist attack before any Israeli retaliation is, as we saw in Manchester on Sunday. The “Not in our name” banners were conspicuous by their absence.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Just on that last sentence, are there not more Palestinian’s now alive than at any other point in their history? (Well before this latest round of Israeli air strikes)

If so, then is it correct to say they’ve been ethnically cleansed?

Daft post.

Ethnic cleansing means removing an ethnicity from an area.

It doesn't mean Genocide Lite. Azerbaijan just ethnically cleansed Nagarno-Karabakh of 100,000 Armenian people.

They didn't get rounded up in camps, and murdered, they just fled to Armenia by their own means when their paramilitaries were defeated.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You know waving a Palestinian flag in no way is saying I support Hamas?

In some instances it plainly will be. Absurd to suggest otherwise.

 

[Bluemoon_420]

Doing it within 24 hours of a terrorist attack before any Israeli retaliation is, as we saw in Manchester on Sunday. The “Not in our name” banners were conspicuous by their absence.

same could be said about all the friends of Israel groups that have come out waving Israeli flags after previous massacres in Gaza. I’ve witnessed a former IDF soldier boasting about killing children and laughing about it. There’s scum bag elements on both sides of the debate, but one side seems to get an easy pass from the media in this country. No outcry whatsoever at the friends of Israel celebrating and justifying the murder of innocent civilians. If there is please show me.