Middle East Conflict

[Deleted member 89841]

Russia Today blaming Ukraine sympathizers for helping to foment the anti-Jewish riot in Dagestan.

Ukraine-linked anti-Jewish riot in Russia: What is known so far

Mass rioting has broken out in Russia’s Dagestan, prompted by online rumors of “Jewish refugees” heading for the Muslim-majority republic

www.rt.com

There's already a wikipedia entry on anti-Jewish actions in the Caucasus.

2023 wave of antisemitism in the North Caucasus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From Reuters.

Russian Rabbi asks Kremlin to punish mob who stormed airport to 'catch' Jews

A senior Russian Rabbi on Monday urged the Kremlin to ensure that rioters in the predominantly Muslim Dagestan region who stormed an airport to "catch" Jewish passengers on board a flight from Tel Aviv were harshly punished.

www.reuters.com

 

[dublinblue12]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Pelegrinni]

Uhh, no?

The Oslo accords were both signed by Yasser Arafat and Yitzak Rabin.

How old are you? Where are you from? And why is your knowledge of history so shit?

If that accord was signed and accepted, then why did they start the second intifada?

Note that your response will be fact checked.

 

[west didsblue]

How many are protesting against Israel but not clued up on Hamas thinking they are innocent

They would have to be pretty dumb for them not to know what happened on 7 October. If they’re vocally anti-Israel without being equivalently vocal about Hamas then it’s not about wanting peace.

 

[Dax777]

They are a far-right, racist, conspiracy peddling pile of shit with a long documented history of deliberately posting fake and misleading stories inlcuding on this very subject.

No one with any self respect should be reading that shit, let alone posting it to inflict it on others.

This is literally a news company that promoted the Obama birtherism myth and the Pizzagate conspiracy theory that Hilary Clinton and a secret cabal of democrats were abusing children in the basement of a pizza parlour that lead to an armed gunman shooting up the pizza place - which has no basement.


I mean...

Breitbart News - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You probably shouldn't trust what leftwing media claims about conservative media.

For what it's worth, Breitbart is no more misleading than say Vox, NPR or MSNBC. Yet I doubt you'd throw a fit if someone posted an article from those sources.

Like the guy said, the article he posted is sourced. So you can reach your own conclusions or check the source to make sure Breitbart, like most news organizations with a lean, isn't misrepresenting what it is stating

 

[halfcenturyup]

If that accord was signed and accepted, then why did they start the second intifada?

Note that your response will be fact checked.

YouTube again? Or Wikipedia this time?

Edit: :) Sorry, that probably sounded condescending. It wasn't supposed to be. I just thought it was a weird "threat".

 

[Pelegrinni]

She should know all about hate , it oozes out of her every pore

Nothing wrong with supporting the palestine people, they are not hamas

Did you see any banner which criticised Hamas while supporting the Palestinian cause/

 

[Pelegrinni]

Even if there are innocent civilians there? Yeah that's barbaric. Asking sick people, disabled people, paralysed people, elderly people, children who literally can't move out of the way to move out of the way while Israel levels their homes, their entire neighbourhoods, murders entire families is very noble. Well done Israel. It's not like they're also bombing the places they're telling them to go to, so what good is these 'noble warnings' when the civilians get bombed into oblivion in the places they were told to flee to.

Hamas are disgusting, bloodthirsty terrorists. Sadly, Israel are also disgusting bloodthirsty terrorists. You don't get to drop thousands of bombs on people indiscriminately every day for weeks and weeks and then still try to claim some kind of moral purity and superiority. Palestinian civilians aren't any more fair game than Israeli civilians are, and the fact you are trying make that claim is utterly abhorrent.

Avoiding civilian casualty was why the IDF has asked them to move out before the ground offensive begins.
Hamas on the other hand wants them to stay so they could serve as human shield.
You can not condemn Israel and Hamas because one wants to save lives, the other wants to kill.
They even stated that they love death as much as we love life.

 

[Dax777]

You just called Hamas an ideological group, even though you denied it was in a previous post .....

Hamas runs on an ideology. I.e. that Islam should rule in the whole of Palestine ( and longer term the world). Many Muslims believe the ideology, but only an extreme few are willing to pay the cost for it. That few is the militant Hamas that needs and should be destroyed.

Hamas is a political and Militant group that runs on an ideology. You can destroy the former. The ideology is the ideology.

As we type there are members in the U.S and UK who operate and believe in this ideology but intend to use Democracy as it's tool for achieving the same goal (at least initially.) I'm not suggesting the attack on that even if I personally oppose it.

But in the case of Hamas and groups like it, I wholeheartedly endorse destruction.

Look, I don't have a horse in this race but coming out with things like the Hamas attack was genocide, that what the Israelis are currently doing is genocide, that civilians have to face the consequences if they can't leave a protected area or "what else can Israel do?" as if there are no alternatives just doesn't progress any debate. All those points are nonsense.

Imho.

I think youve summarized lots of opinions you disagree with in general. Most of which I don't hold.

 

[Pelegrinni]

Also, it's not like Israel aren't dropping bombs in the south and the Rafah crossing, so to telling these civilians to flee the north because a bomb is coming is not the noble gesture that is being claimed, when Israel are bombing the shit out the very places they're telling civilians to flee to.

The bomb they dropped at the crossing was targeting a tunnel. Did you see the crater caused by the ordinance?

 

[Dax777]

You would do it humanely? Or just throw grenades at it?

That was an analogy. We often run the error of overstretching the analogy. The point of with was to show prior actions (be they wrong) are not always instructive as to what present action should be.

I've seen the analogy of

"if you own a house and someone comes and lives with you then demands you get kicked or go live in the cellar..."

Unfortunately, those who use that analogy are simply doing a disservice to the facts. I hope not to do that here.

 

[Pelegrinni]

There is no defence for Hamas they are a nihilist terror group

And I have not read one post on here that does, most people including myself realise that what Israel is doing is counter productive because it's just treating the symptom rather than the cause, also I don't really think it's possible to wipe them out without killing many thousands of innocent civilians, some it would seem think it's a price worth paying, even if it's proven that it won't work without a political and economic solution to the plight of Palestinians

Falujah, Mosul, Grozny, Aleppo - what do these have in common?

Dislodging a terror group from any city will be bloody.
It would be costly but if Israel can liberate Gaza from Hamas, then there will be long term peace as can be evidenced from these cities I mentioned above.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Did you see any banner which criticised Hamas while supporting the Palestinian cause/

This is another of those arguments that don't make a lot of sense. These are protests presumably against the effects of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory and the perceived disproportionate response to the terrorist attack. Why would they address anything else?

Why wouldn't the "protests" in support of Israel immediately after the attack, for example, also have denounced the occupation of Gaza, for example, which, to some extent, in one way or another, have led to it?

Nonsense.

There is so much to debate on this issue without going down these rabbit holes.

 

[dublinblue12]

 

[Dax777]

There is no defence for Hamas they are a nihilist terror group

And I have not read one post on here that does, most people including myself realise that what Israel is doing is counter productive because it's just treating the symptom rather than the cause, also I don't really think it's possible to wipe them out without killing many thousands of innocent civilians, some it would seem think it's a price worth paying, even if it's proven that it won't work without a political and economic solution to the plight of Palestinians

What would you propose should be done. I for one think wiping out Hamas is one of the keys to success.

I don't know why you state it won't work. Attacking terror groups directly and decimating their power base tends to work.

And that and an economic and political solution to the plight of the Palestinians aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Frankly, so long as Hamas exists there will never be a political or economic solution at all.

The economic and political solution to the plight of Palestinians partly rests on the dismantling of Hama,'s death grip on Gaza.

 

[Vic]

Exactly. To some they believe the west is responsible and all energy is put into that form of criticism but actually what's happening is not new in the world. Look at how Russia is treating Ukraine, look at how Assad and Syria squashed its own population to stop Syrian rebels. I don't see the same energy put into criticising those countries, how many Socialist Worker readers protested the Ukraine war or Syrian regime? None, they instead march to criticise NATO.

What Israel is doing is depressing and wrong but it's not unique or unsurprising in the grand scheme of things. It's quite ironic how Israel attracts so much criticism yet the criticisers put very little energy into criticising the main antagonists in Hamas and who Hamas is backed by. Some are even asking for Israel to stop its defense and allow Hamas attacks to continue because those attacks historically usually only kill a few people or none at all, it's unbelievable.

Hamas are backed by countries who are not exactly known for their record on human rights. The Iranians just for example have said a lot about the humanitarian problems in Gaza but the fact still remains that the Iranian government shoots dissidents who protest against the Iranian regime. The Russians arrest anyone who protests against the war in Ukraine and those who criticise Putin.

The one thing that the protesters and self-righteous don't understand is that when they take a side that is sympathetic or apologetic of Hamas then they lose all moral authority.

Who Hamas is backed by?

That would be Netanyahu.... (Maybe not now of course)

 

[Vialli98]

Avoiding civilian casualty was why the IDF has asked them to move out before the ground offensive begins.
Hamas on the other hand wants them to stay so they could serve as human shield.
You can not condemn Israel and Hamas because one wants to save lives, the other wants to kill.
They even stated that they love death as much as we love life.

This is just IDF propaganda, I'm sorry. It's IDF talking points almost word for word.

You are asking civilians, many of them physically and literally incapable of fleeing to flee and then you drop thousands of bombs on them and your response to their horrific deaths is 'oh well we told them to move'. You should maybe take a breather and re-examine what you're defending here.

And then those that can flee to the south are met with more indiscriminate bombings in the south, so forgive me if I doubt that the IDF have noble intentions.

 

[Bradley82]

We don't know the details behind that video. The dead Hamas soldier could be wearing an explosive vest.

Yes I can imagine the vehicle commander saying "let's tow the dead guy with the explosive vest past a line of our infantry boys, it'll be safe enough"

 

[Eebo]

I actually support the ordinary Palestinian cause. I want their children to have access to the same opportunities my kids have. Access to good education, safety and peace. But that's not going to happen with Hamas at the helm.

If you love the Palestinians, you should support the Israeli attempt to uproot Hamas from Gaza.

I believe in rational discussion and being courteous, but you sir are clearly a piss-taking troll to come out with an insulting and patronising statement like that.

You are trying to justify slaughter and terror, and you are actually damaging support for your cause.

 

[Vialli98]

What would you propose should be done. I for one think wiping out Hamas is one of the keys to success.

I don't know why you state it won't work. Attacking terror groups directly and decimating their power base tends to work.

And that and an economic and political solution to the plight of the Palestinians aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Frankly, so long as Hamas exists there will never be a political or economic solution at all.

The economic and political solution to the plight of Palestinians partly rests on the dismantling of Hama,'s death grip on Gaza.

I would argue for as long as Netanyahu and politicians who think like him remain in power there is equally nope of any political or economic solution here. They have no interest in peace and one could make the point that Hamas' existence is good for their political careers.