Middle East Conflict

mancity2012_eamo said:
I find the arguments over millennia of history largely irrelevant when it comes to who has the rights to the land. I find any religious references to the Koran, The Torah, The Bible as symptomatic of the problems the world in general and that area in particular are dealing with.
To my mind, you might as well quote Gandalf or Saruman damning the Orcs to Mordor for all the relevance to this day and age.

I find the 1947-48 settlement as an imperialist solution to local people that they really don’t care for.
It happened quite a lot in the 20th century.

But I find the present mess and lack of empathy for the other side depressingly worrying.

Because even those in here who most vociferously back the Jewish cause, when asked about the simple daily injustices served upon the ordinary Palestinian people of all occupied areas, tend to only go as far as to say that they have no time for Netanyahu and he and his right wing government need to go.

Some qualify this with saying he’s right doing what he’s doing, but he has to go after he’s finished.

I really am bewildered by some of the attitudes towards each other in here. If you break down what most of us are saying, we actually all seem to agree on a lot of the problems but get bogged down in who started it or who’s fault is it.


One question I would have to the Pro-Israeli posters is, if Netanyahu sees this through and at the end of it all as some of us suspect, he either splits the Gaza Strip North and South or takes it all, but effectively cleanses the land of The Palestinian who lived their, will this be justified?
It’s a scenario that hasn’t happened yet, I know, but it’s not too far fetched a question to ask.

We would all want Netanyahu gone as well as Hamas, but there is an overwhelming feeling that this is exactly the opportunity he was looking for.
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The Americans have drawn very few red lines that we know about but the expulsion of the population was one of them

I don't think the objective is realistic not many do, in order to guarantee their safety from attack they are going to have to occupy the whole strip and take on board over 2 million angry Palestinians and an ongoing insurgency plus as the occupying power they will have to provide for the population, (no state in the region will take this on board)

Which will tie up large parts of the IDF and cost billions and it will be very brutal on all sides

I still get the feeling they will do a load of damage kill a few more thousand declare some kind of victory and leave, Hamas will be bruised but unbowed and will rearm ready for the next conflict to erupt and on we go

Or there could be serious negotiations, give the Palestinians what they want and need an independent state on the west bank with a land link to Gaza

My greatest anger is towards the Americans, Israel is a client state the reality is they can't fart without permission from them, everyone knows it, they control the purse strings although (prior to this) Israel had a not bad economy it could not afford its massive military commitments on it's own
 
Ducado said:
My greatest anger is towards the Americans, Israel is a client state the reality is they can't fart without permission from them, everyone knows it, they control the purse strings although (prior to this) Israel had a not bad economy it could not afford its massive military commitments on it's own
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Agree with the anger bit.

But if I was an American, I would be MIGHTY pissed off that we had given Israel a shed load of support and arms and whatnot over the years and now they ask Israel for a simple pause in the hostilities and the Israelis give them the finger???!!

How to win friends and influence people, not. If I was Biden I'd be telling the Israelis to tow the fucking line or they can forget support in the future. Does America have no balls whatsoever?
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
So you're a biblical scholar now and take it literally? That's really the worst argument I've ever heard, and in your post that takes some doing. Do you seriously think that Uganda has the same significance for the Jewish people that Israel, their historic home, does?

There's lots of states that didn't exist 100 years ago that now do. Most of the Middle East and Africa for a start. Many of those were "given" to one group or other. If you can read books without lots of pictures or that don't consist of give-word sentences, I'd recommend James Barr's "A Line In The Sand". The Al Saud tribe's claim to Saudi Arabia is based on conquest of the other tribes (and that conquest was only finally completed about a hundred years ago).

The Hashemites who rule Jordan were Saudis who lost out to the Al Sauds but got some land because they'd also supported the Allies in WW1. Many African countries were formed that arbitrarily brought competing groups within the same boundaries.

Millions of Indians were displaced in 1947 when that country was partitioned. None of those are screaming to go back to their original homes. Pakistan, in fact, is in the process of expelling 1.7m undocumented Afghan refugees, some of whom have lived in Pakistan for decades. Where's your outrage about that? You're probably completely ignorant about it, yet spout the usual ill-informed cliches about Israel/Palestine.

Nd talking of Afghanistan, it's estimated that 2/3rds of the population require humanitarian aid, yet the funds given to the previous regime have been frozen by the countries that previously donated since the Taliban took over. Sounds to me like collective punishment of the Afghan people, yet no one is marching in London demanding that Pakistan stop the deportation.
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Iran, your favourite country, has been absorbing millions of Afghans for decades
 
Chippy_boy said:
Agree with the anger bit.

But if I was an American, I would be MIGHTY pissed off that we had given Israel a shed load of support and arms and whatnot over the years and now they ask Israel for a simple pause in the hostilities and the Israelis give them the finger???!!

How to win friends and influence people, not. If I was Biden I'd be telling the Israelis to tow the fucking line or they can forget support in the future. Does America have no balls whatsoever?
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Balls? I don’t know.
What they do have is a strategic interest in the area.
 
FLManc said:
I'm amazed any of your 'supplies' are left considering the number of trips you've made in the past 3 or so weeks!
:-)
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I'm on first name terms with all the staff..here comes pisshead again
 
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