Motion - the country is completely broken

Just found out nurses have to pay for parking again.

It was stopped during the pandemic but as of April they don’t even get to park at work for free.

More fucking insults handed to them , no wonder they are striking when the goverment clearly don't respect what they represent to the UK heathcare system.

I assume that Boris received private nursing when the **** had covid !
 
More fucking insults handed to them , no wonder they are striking when the goverment clearly don't respect what they represent to the UK heathcare system.

I assume that Boris received private nursing when the **** had covid !

No - he was treated in St Thomas' Hospital right across the Thames from the HoC - nurses there were out on strike yesterday so some of the Tory MP's will have brazenly walked past them on their way in.
 
Merry Christmas you Tory fuckers

Given how appalling and damaging this government is to our country, I suppose it may be seen as straw-clutching, but the response shown by some people to the desperate plight of fellow citizens is quite touching and demonstrates the innate goodness of the people of Britain.
The best response to such callous disregard for human decency demonstrated by this government is to be generous and caring.
Sentiments and emotions way beyond the Tory bastards.
 
Given how appalling and damaging this government is to our country, I suppose it may be seen as straw-clutching, but the response shown by some people to the desperate plight of fellow citizens is quite touching and demonstrates the innate goodness of the people of Britain.
The best response to such callous disregard for human decency demonstrated by this government is to be generous and caring.
Sentiments and emotions way beyond the Tory bastards.
Yet these cunts in charge will be pissing themselves at her generosity and saying she’s a fool for doing it for free. When will those supposedly in charge start showing the same level of kindness? Never is my guess, and we class ourselves as one of the leading nations in the world… do me a favour. Starving kids, dirty kids, the amount of homelessness. I’m ashamed that we’ve all allowed it to get like this.
 
I have never felt as low about the government in my life. I suppose I was young under Thatcher but her damage continues but with sheer corruption as the new icing on top of her cake. Even she wouldn't have left the EU. Let's cut ourselves off from the main market place. Unbelievable.
 
I have never felt as low about the government in my life. I suppose I was young under Thatcher but her damage continues but with sheer corruption as the new icing on top of her cake. Even she wouldn't have left the EU. Let's cut ourselves off from the main market place. Unbelievable.
It really is, mate. Future generations will look back with incredulity at how we fucked things up for them.
 
Given how appalling and damaging this government is to our country, I suppose it may be seen as straw-clutching, but the response shown by some people to the desperate plight of fellow citizens is quite touching and demonstrates the innate goodness of the people of Britain.
The best response to such callous disregard for human decency demonstrated by this government is to be generous and caring.
Sentiments and emotions way beyond the Tory bastards.
and vote them out first chance we get
 
We will be back in in ten years n my opinion. I don't know anyone under 30 who voted for it. Most of those I know that did are old and don't like Germans for the obvious. The rest, thick or racist or both.
Back in ten years with our tail between our legs and having to surrender the pound. A global laughing stock.

How’s that for taking back control?
 
Back in ten years with our tail between our legs and having to surrender the pound. A global laughing stock.

How’s that for taking back control?

we won't be back in ten years because the demands made upon us by the EU to rejoin will be too difficult a sell - If we are looking to go back in ten years then I fear for the state of the country at that time - we certainly won't be a G7 country and our economy would have to be outside the top 10 in the world because at that stage people would still be alive who could remember what we had and would be pushing for re-entry. Politics has gone through its mad stage its about to enter a strange stage.
 
we won't be back in ten years because the demands made upon us by the EU to rejoin will be too difficult a sell - If we are looking to go back in ten years then I fear for the state of the country at that time - we certainly won't be a G7 country and our economy would have to be outside the top 10 in the world because at that stage people would still be alive who could remember what we had and would be pushing for re-entry. Politics has gone through its mad stage its about to enter a strange stage.
I don’t think anyone, including you and me, can rule anything out mate. Look at the last ten years of madness. It’s perfectly possible we could rejoin if things got really bad.

Not saying we’ll definitely rejoin in the manner described btw, but it’s perfectly plausible.
 
I knew the NHS was fucked last year, a lad on the watch had what I thought was a suspected stroke, we drove him to A&E, we went in and and yes I expected to be treated a bit different because we were in uniform (don’t shoot me) however we had to wait over an hour to see someone, now strokes need to be treated immediately or that’s what we are told, for the drugs to take effect. I suspect if we had called for an ambulance the wait would’ve been a lot longer, thankfully he made a full recovery, but when you are waiting for stuff like this you look around the waiting room and think when the fuck will this end.
For strokes you need thrombolysis (clot busting agent) within 4.5 hours. Time is death.
 
I don’t think anyone, including you and me, can rule anything out mate. Look at the last ten years of madness. It’s perfectly possible we could rejoin if things got really bad.

Not saying we’ll definitely rejoin in the manner described btw, but it’s perfectly plausible.

well we don't HAVE to take the euro Sweden, Poland and Romania are among those who don't use it but I just think first we have to get shot of the Tories big style and end a lot of FRG political careers. Then when we get Labour in we have to change Starmer and his Shadow Cabinets approach of "lets make it work2 or rid ourselves of them - that could mean we are 5 years on and at another GE already at which the narrative looks at rejoining and a Party or coalition who can form and get elected with a mission to open up talks on rejoining and I just feel 10 years could be too short a timescale
 
I didn't say that. I think your recollection is wrong. She was very pro the single european act, but anti Maastricht. I suspect there's nothing between us, but, here you go:-
One of the more bitter aspects of the Tory infighting over the Maastricht Treaty revolved around Margaret Thatcher-practising her role as a backseat driver-coming out against Maastricht and calling for a referendum on the treaty, which a lot of people figured was because she thought it would lose. John Major and his supporters, and even a few rebels, thought that this was her getting back at him for perceived disloyalty over her removal from power and that she would have backed Maastricht like she backed the Single European Act. Thatcher, and most Maastricht rebels, insist that this was one treaty too far and that Major was a wet, pro-European, whose opt-outs didn't mean much in reality.

This often gets mixed in with debates over Heseltine's leadership challenge and Thatcher's toppling from power, but I think it's a question that doesn't get asked enough or-when it asked-the answer is stuck in re-fighting old wars. On the one hand, Thatcher was seen as having taken an anti-European turn after Bruges and someone who said "No, no, no" to a lot of what Maastricht proposed might not have gone for it. But, Bruges tends to be overstated as some kind of conversion or descent into madness. A lot of the speech is actually supportive of the project and Thatcher comes out more from retrenchment than retreat.

Also, the question doesn't get asked since it's rightly believed that Thatcher would have lost the next election. For the sake of debate, we'll presume that there's no Poll Tax or the economic troubles of '89-91 are butterflyed forward and so Thatcher has enough stable ground to fend off Meyer's challenge, Heseltine is deterred, and let's add giving Howe a cold so his speech is shorter/less effective.

Would Thatcher have signed Maastricht?

The first thing to consider are the opt-outs from the Euro and Social Chapter, along with the principle of subsidiarity. The element of personal diplomacy does matter as I doubt Thatcher's stance on German re-unification would have won her friends in Berlin and she already felt that the other leaders had broken trust over the SEA. If she doesn't get the opt-outs Major got IOTL, I can't see her agreeing to sign the treaty, but even if she did, would it have been enough?

There's also Black Wednesday and outside factors including the Danish and French referendums. Considering Thatcher was dragged kicking and screaming into the former, an earlier exit from the ERM isn't unlikely with even more complaints about Germany than OTL. Those events gave the Maastricht rebels a boost and having a Prime Minister feeling like she was right and her Cabinet was wrong isn't going to make life easy for Clarke, Hurd, etc who'd be pushing hard for Maastricht. The party's also going to be more Europsceptic at the backbench level.

Whether she agrees to sign or not, there's also the question of rebellion. If she agrees to sign, there's no spiritual leader for the rebels to go on or a belief that their leader got the job through dodgy methods, but there'll still be rebels to a government with a much smaller majority than in 1986. It'd pass, but the mythology of the Eurosceptic Right would be very different. If she doesn't sign, there's going to be Cabinet resignations and maybe even defections to the LibDems. I doubt she'd go for a referendum on the treaty while she was Prime Minister; not just because it'd be widely seen as a wrecking-tactic.

I personally think Thatcher would have been open to the treaty, but under conditions that wouldn't have been accepted and probably leading to a crisis as one member-state refuses to sign.

I very much enjoyed reading your excellent post. Thatchers backing of the single European act was, in her eyes, an extension of her liberalised and deregulated domestic policy - she saw an opportunity for “Thatcherism in Europe”, to the extent that she made (for her) considerable concessions.
 
I have never felt as low about the government in my life. I suppose I was young under Thatcher but her damage continues but with sheer corruption as the new icing on top of her cake. Even she wouldn't have left the EU. Let's cut ourselves off from the main market place. Unbelievable.
I’m no spring chicken and I’ve seen quite a few governments come and go.
Some good, some bad, and some atrocious.
But never before have I actually felt that a government is so openly and actively hostile to its own people.
 
well we don't HAVE to take the euro Sweden, Poland and Romania are among those who don't use it but I just think first we have to get shot of the Tories big style and end a lot of FRG political careers. Then when we get Labour in we have to change Starmer and his Shadow Cabinets approach of "lets make it work2 or rid ourselves of them - that could mean we are 5 years on and at another GE already at which the narrative looks at rejoining and a Party or coalition who can form and get elected with a mission to open up talks on rejoining and I just feel 10 years could be too short a timescale
You might be right, but a decade is a long time.
 

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