NATO, Get the F@#k Out...

[Rascal]

Genuine question: what do you propose as the alternative to NATO membership?

Why do we need one?

 

[west didsblue]

Why do we need one?

Look at the countries on Russia’s western border and compare those that are in NATO and those that aren’t in NATO in terms of who has been invaded or subjugated and who hasn’t.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Meanwhile the big boys are destabilising central Africa and the silence Is deafening.

 

[Postman Pep]

Meanwhile the big boys are destabilising central Africa and the silence Is deafening.

Yet another boost for the 'defence' industry.... no tightening of the belts in that sector ;-)

 

[Streetsweeper]

As someone who worked in central Africa for a fair while, much of this is post-colonial. We (the UK) generally got out and fucked off sharpish (with the exception of Kenya and Zimbabwe) and as a result, many of our former colonies have been able to forge their own paths politically and economically - I’m not saying we were perfect, we did some truly shitty things in Kenya and the independence of Zimbabwe was a lesson in how to fuck it up, but for every Zimbabwe, there’s a Ghana or a Botswana doing really well. The French have always found it hard not to interfere in the internal politics of their former colonies, they’ve regularly stationed troops in Chad, Niger and Gabon and having worked in both Gabon and Congo-Brazzaville (both ex-French colonies) let’s say their relationship with France is complicated, to say the least. One of the reasons China and Russia have so much influence is because they carry no colonial baggage and many of the Cold Wa era bush wars in sub-Saharan Africa were fought between western-backed proxy governments and Soviet/Chinese back rebels or client states - Cubans fought in Angola!

it’s also worth noting that China and Russia don’t carry the same level of support - Russian currency was always hard power - weapons and mercenaries, whereas China goes big on infrastructure at almost giveaway prices. Back in 2009 I was drinking in a bar in Pointe Noire in Congo Brazzaville and got talking to two Russian pilots who were flying helicopter gunships in CB and who were being paid in diamonds. Flashed them right there at the bar. They were only there whilst the money was flowing. the Chinese are investing in return for oil rights. Even the locals back in 2009 knew the Russians were temporary, but they all thought the Chinese were there to stay.

 

[goalmole]

Hahaha China and russia love Africans and want what is best for them. Will all end in tears with zero benefit to Africa except a select few bootlickers.

It doesn't really matter to the ordinary African whose boots his oppressor happens to be licking at any given time.
The Americans and the West in general are no angels in this regard.

 

[jim tolmies perm]

Genuine question: what do you propose as the alternative to NATO membership?

I think it's some form of big Utopian internationalist tree hug

 

[stonerblue]

Sorry, mate, cannot agree with you on people like Hitler. Our supposed leaders would sell their soul to the highest bidder but when it comes to the crunch, we’ll try to do the right thing.

Remember, we have been allowing Russia to push money through London yet when it come to it, we stood-up, once again.

Bit creepy that you used that analogy, to be honest.

Oligarchs will hide wealth in UK’s offshore tax havens, government warned

Exclusive: The ‘dirty money’ legislation being rushed through parliament won’t prevent use of British territories, say campaigners

www.independent.co.uk

 

[stonerblue]

As someone who worked in central Africa for a fair while, much of this is post-colonial. We (the UK) generally got out and fucked off sharpish (with the exception of Kenya and Zimbabwe) and as a result, many of our former colonies have been able to forge their own paths politically and economically - I’m not saying we were perfect, we did some truly shitty things in Kenya and the independence of Zimbabwe was a lesson in how to fuck it up, but for every Zimbabwe, there’s a Ghana or a Botswana doing really well. The French have always found it hard not to interfere in the internal politics of their former colonies, they’ve regularly stationed troops in Chad, Niger and Gabon and having worked in both Gabon and Congo-Brazzaville (both ex-French colonies) let’s say their relationship with France is complicated, to say the least. One of the reasons China and Russia have so much influence is because they carry no colonial baggage and many of the Cold Wa era bush wars in sub-Saharan Africa were fought between western-backed proxy governments and Soviet/Chinese back rebels or client states - Cubans fought in Angola!

it’s also worth noting that China and Russia don’t carry the same level of support - Russian currency was always hard power - weapons and mercenaries, whereas China goes big on infrastructure at almost giveaway prices. Back in 2009 I was drinking in a bar in Pointe Noire in Congo Brazzaville and got talking to two Russian pilots who were flying helicopter gunships in CB and who were being paid in diamonds. Flashed them right there at the bar. They were only there whilst the money was flowing. the Chinese are investing in return for oil rights. Even the locals back in 2009 knew the Russians were temporary, but they all thought the Chinese were there to stay.

great post