Neil Young demands Spotify remove his music.

I don't know. It’s a good question. I think @Prestwich_Blue is probably right to suggest the solution might have been some type of disclaimer but Rogan (as far as I recall) negotiated complete editorial control over his content. But that might not be enough now if this escalates further. Rogan can de-escalate it by altering his content but since he's built his reputation on being a whore who will platform nearly anything it might be difficult for him to stand up and say "I'm not doing anal or fucking donkeys any longer" without risking alienating his "manly" audience who specifically listens for that stuff and for his kicking against the pricks. If enough artists depart, people will leave for lack of a comprehensive selection (in my case) or the loss of their favo(u)rites (in most other cases). It could be a mess.

If Rogan disappears there will be a few posters here who will be in a quandary because they won't have him to tell them what to say and think any more, but I'm sure he'll find another pipe for his content.
I honestly don't know what people are scared of? I've had both jabs, my booster, a dose of covid and I'll be keen to have any other jabs as and when available. Listening to the odd Rogan podcast or one of his nutty guests won't change this. The sort of people that go down the anti-vax rabbit hole are not going to be saved by silencing rogan etc, in fact that will probably just fan the flames of their conspiracy theories.
 
Doing it on Friday.

I think it's dumb. I haven't had any symptoms or tested positive in any way, shape or form, but all my colleagues jabbed up around me have and I work in a small space. I have learned to look after my health whilst they all sit on their collective arses eating shit all day.

I happen to like my work and that's the only reason I'm doing it; to help pts.

I know many docs, nurses and other staff not doing it and willing to walk away on principle. We've had loads of NHS vid meetings on it in the last 4 weeks.

I guess no matter what, some idiots will call me 'anti-vaxx' when, actually, I don't give a shit if people vacc out of their own choice, but this is forced.

I get where Rogan stands on it.

what harm do you think the vaccine will do?
 
I honestly don't know what people are scared of? I've had both jabs, my booster, a dose of covid and I'll be keen to have any other jabs as and when available. Listening to the odd Rogan podcast or one of his nutty guests won't change this. The sort of people that go down the anti-vax rabbit hole are not going to be saved by silencing rogan etc, in fact that will probably just fan the flames of their conspiracy theories.
Because there is an overriding social benefit in living in a world where people don’t die from easily preventable deaths and anti-vax rhetoric and deliberate misinformation works directly against that social benefit. At least I think so and I think most do.

But . . . there is also an overriding social benefit in allowing all to say what we like through a freedom of speech lens. I think we all agree there too.

But then it gets tricky. Mass media/broadcasters have always been and should be subject to a different set of conditions on speech because of their reach and influence. These restrictions are codified into law. A friend can tell a lie about you to some other friends. But if you are libeled/slandered via a media outlet, there can be negative consequences for the liar and the outlet because of the outlet’s breadth of distribution.

Where publicly unregulated, we rely on the outlet itself to regulate content. This of course puts the fox among the hens because the natural tendency of a profit-making enterprise is to maximize reach, even more so when the incremental unit of distribution is effectively cost-less to acquire and manufacture, which argues for no self-regulation. But when that reach is threatened via a clamor for regulation from users, as in this case, Spotify has a choice to make.

And the clamor is coming because an effectively unregulated platform has allowed a content provider to espouse an anti-social benefit line of rhetoric, which the clamorers object to as believers in that social benefit.

So I don’t really think it’s about what Rogan’s listeners will and won’t do. It’s about a strong belief in a social good which in their mind means society pulling together on the same set of oars. We can say it comes down to “the principle of the thing” if we want to be that cliched but that’s what it boils down to, I think.

I’ll note also that the line between socially-responsible and socially-irresponsible content is a faint and blurry one, changes all the time, and some mass media outlets stand firmly on either side, some straddle it, and some go back and forth dependent on the topic.

I deal with media almost every week in my job — mostly print, but sometimes broadcast. In my experience 90% of the reporters and editors I deal with are firmly on the ethical, responsible side of the line. The 10% that are elsewhere are almost uniformly the best-known and tend to be broadcast.
 
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Joe Rogan with a short clip explaining his take on the situation, a worthwhile listen.


I think the "I'm just interested in finding out the truth" act is a little disingenuous. He's interested in bringing on people who go against the consensus because "everything you've been told about covid is wrong" will get more clicks than an interview with one of the many experts confirming what you've already been told.
 
I think the "I'm just interested in finding out the truth" act is a little disingenuous. He's interested in bringing on people who go against the consensus because "everything you've been told about covid is wrong" will get more clicks than an interview with one of the many experts confirming what you've already been told.
Exactly this. I mean he's glorifying his guests in the introductions of those examples but not giving the 'downsides' to their credentials and also demonstrates his bias/misunderstanding with that '8 months ago they said you couldn't catch covid after being vaccinated' piffle. Also the emphasis on "dangerous misinformation", I could hear him do air quotes.
 
He has that right, absolutely. But it still concerns me that he thinks he has the right to dictate how and what other consume. Because it's potentially a short step from there to things like book burning. Young specifically asked Spotify to choose between him and Rogan and that's wrong in my view.

Joni Mitchell took a more measured approach, in which she avoided the 'him or me' scenario but referred to the open letter written by a large group of scientists and medical people. Open Letter

In its final paragraph, that says "We, the undersigned doctors, nurses, scientists, and educators thus call on Spotify to immediately establish a clear and public policy to moderate misinformation on its platform." That's a much more nuanced approach, requesting them to moderate any misinformation, an approach I 100% agree with. Spotify do have a moderation policy; it's not a free-for-all and I think they probably got that Malone episode wrong. That's not to say they should censor it completely but should make it clear, as Facebook and Twitter did with Trump, that's it's a very contentious view that appears to be unsupported by evidence.

Rogan himself has claimed he's not anti-vax but he believes that the young and healthy don't need the vaccine https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56948665 Note that he explicitly says this: "I'm not a doctor," he said. "I'm not a respected source of information, even for me."

I'm a great believer in critical thinking, where people review ALL the available data or opinions then come to their own view. I don't agree with the view that "He's wrong, and because he's wrong, while there's an opportunity to listen to him (whether you want to or not) you can't listen to me."

Rogan was on his own podcast the other week, arguing with some bloke about data that was just wrong (Rogans data) and yet continued to double down on it, despite the fact his guest proved multiple times Joe was wrong.

My biggest issue with people like Rogan is they have a huge reach, but quite often spout shit about things they really know very little about. If Rogan wants to become an expert in the field of medicine and vaccines,perhaps he should take some time off and do the study (8 years) so that he can actually put forward his opinions on the matter with validation, rather than just rattling off data from obscure websites.
 
I think the "I'm just interested in finding out the truth" act is a little disingenuous. He's interested in bringing on people who go against the consensus because "everything you've been told about covid is wrong" will get more clicks than an interview with one of the many experts confirming what you've already been told.

That's the big issue I have with him, he stirs the pot unecessarily and always seems to bring on guests that have an 'alternative view', which is fine in some situations - but when the alternative view has been disproven, I don't understand why he continues to double or triple down on it.
 
Rogan was on his own podcast the other week, arguing with some bloke about data that was just wrong (Rogans data) and yet continued to double down on it, despite the fact his guest proved multiple times Joe was wrong.

My biggest issue with people like Rogan is they have a huge reach, but quite often spout shit about things they really know very little about.
He really needs to get into football punditry/journalism then as spouting shit about things you know nothing about is a prime requirement. Sounds like Delaney in disguise.
 
That's the big issue I have with him, he stirs the pot unecessarily and always seems to bring on guests that have an 'alternative view', which is fine in some situations - but when the alternative view has been disproven, I don't understand why he continues to double or triple down on it.
That really isn't an accurate description of his guests at all, lets face it most of the hate generated towards him is for allowing a few right leaning guests on his show.
 

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