Nelson Mandela RIP

[Tricky Dickys Right Foot Shot]

I've got to admit my knowledge on Nelson Mandela is very little so anyone willing to share what they know then that would be great as most people I know see Nelson Mandela as some sort of saint and saviour, that's the impression that I got from the media anyway, that he was some sort of iconic figure to the world??

Is this one of those black and white picture things that have gray areas?

I'd recommend you to read up on it and make up your own mind. You will find it hard to get a balanced view of such a contrasting person on an internet forum.

It is a great life story to read. There is good and bad.

I thought as much, I'll have a look around and see what I can conjure up, cheers!

 

[bluevengence]

http://www.okwonga.com/?p=869

Dear revisionists, Mandela will never, ever be your minstrel. Over the next few days you will try so, so hard to make him something he was not, and you will fail. You will try to smooth him, to sandblast him, to take away his Malcolm X. You will try to hide his anger from view. Right now, you are anxiously pacing the corridors of your condos and country estates, looking for the right words, the right tributes, the right-wing tributes. You will say that Mandela was not about race. You will say that Mandela was not about politics. You will say that Mandela was about nothing but one love, you will try to reduce him to a lilting reggae tune. “Let’s get together, and feel alright.” Yes, you will do that.


You will make out that apartheid was just some sort of evil mystical space disease that suddenly fell from the heavens and settled on all of us, had us all, black or white, in its thrall, until Mandela appeared from the ether to redeem us. You will try to make Mandela a Magic Negro and you will fail. You will say that Mandela stood above all for forgiveness whilst scuttling swiftly over the details of the perversity that he had the grace to forgive.


You will try to make out that apartheid was some horrid spontaneous historical aberration, and not the logical culmination of centuries of imperial arrogance. Yes, you will try that too. You will imply or audaciously state that its evils ended the day Mandela stepped out of jail. You will fold your hands and say the blacks have no-one to blame now but themselves.


Well, try hard as you like, and you’ll fail. Because Mandela was about politics and he was about race and he was about freedom and he was even about force, and he did what he felt he had to do and given the current economic inequality in South Africa he might even have died thinking he didn’t do nearly enough of it. And perhaps the greatest tragedy of Mandela’s life isn’t that he spent almost thirty years jailed by well-heeled racists who tried to shatter millions of spirits through breaking his soul, but that there weren’t or aren’t nearly enough people like him.


Because that’s South Africa now, a country long ago plunged headfirst so deep into the sewage of racial hatred that, for all Mandela’s efforts, it is still retching by the side of the swamp. Just imagine if Cape Town were London. Imagine seeing two million white people living in shacks and mud huts along the M25 as you make your way into the city, where most of the biggest houses and biggest jobs are occupied by a small, affluent to wealthy group of black people. There are no words for the resentment that would still simmer there.


Nelson Mandela was not a god, floating elegantly above us and saving us. He was utterly, thoroughly human, and he did all he did in spite of people like you. There is no need to name you because you know who you are, we know who you are, and you know we know that too. You didn’t break him in life, and you won’t shape him in death. You will try, wherever you are, and you will fail.

 

[dazdon]

Will he be buried somewhere nice?

 

[Banned Tosspot]

Will he be buried somewhere nice?

Next to his victims.

 

[supa-dapa-dan]

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

You did read that?

He and his party murdered to get his Presidency.

They are blind to the truth mate..and this is why i dislike the ****.murders thousands and hes a hero..lets free the yorkshire ripper eh.he only killed a few prozzies to save the world..im already voting for sutcliffe to get the peace prize....

What are your thoughts on the British empire?

 

[Blue Til Death]

You did read that?

He and his party murdered to get his Presidency.

They are blind to the truth mate..and this is why i dislike the ****.murders thousands and hes a hero..lets free the yorkshire ripper eh.he only killed a few prozzies to save the world..im already voting for sutcliffe to get the peace prize....

What are your thoughts on the British empire?

A sad loss!!

 

[M18CTID]

The act of terror is usually the last response of the desperate. I don't agree with terrorism or support it in anyway shape or form. I can understand why people are driven to it.
It is sad that we live in a world where there is oppression, war and terrorism. All fueled by hatred and fear.

Mandela should have been the poster boy for a hate campaign against the regime that imprisoned him for 27 years. He could have caused untold bloodshed upon his release, with words of hate. While imprisoned he reflected on his life and the situation and came out preaching words of unity and peace for both races.


This is like any other debate on Bluemoon. There are very few willing to listen to the other sides argument.

We can condemn him for his early years, while at the same time forgiving him and respecting him for becoming the man he became. It is futile to argue one point without acknowledging the other.

During the run up to the elections in 1994, the two main black parties were the Xhosa (a SA tribe to which Mandela belongs) dominated ANC led by Mandela, and the Zulu Inkatha party. As the Zulu´s were the largest tribe in SA, the ANC, who had waged a armed conflict against the white government, were afraid they would lose the elections, so, under the orders of Mandela, the ANC cadres were sent to "persuade" the Zulu´s to support the ANC. The only way these animals campaigned for their party was to slaughter the Inkatha supporters. Anyone with allegiance to Inkatha was simply killed and an estimated 50,000 Zulu´s were killed in the most ghastly manner in the 2 years leading up to the elections.

Mainly, rural villages were burned to the ground in the Inkatha areas, and anyone trying to flee from the burning huts was either shot or hacked to death with machetes, men woman and children, as well as live stock. Nothing was spared. All these killings were done in the name of, and with the blessing of, the ANC and Nelson Mandela, who was the leader of the ANC party.

Come back to me when you are willing to add a paragraph on all the good he performed and lives he saved.

I accept that what was done was wrong. I also put forward that if a man changes who he is and performs good deeds for the benefit of all races within his nation then he can be forgive. Some aren't willing to forgive, and I can't understand why not. The man was a living contrast. To discuss his life with particular focus on one time frame does not give a clear picture.

You need to judge it from the beginning to the end.

I personally think the good far outweighed the bad, and if you cannot come to the same conclusion and get hung up on the negatives. Then I feel for you.

If the poster you're quoting is correct in what he says, then that puts a very different slant on the man IMO. I've no issue whatsoever with him carrying out acts of sabotage directly against his country's oppressive rulers (as he did all those years ago) but how the estimated deaths of 50,000 innocent civilians (and black civilians at that, the very people whose freedom he was supposed to be fighting for) at the hands of his party and seemingly with his blessing can be explained away because the good things he did "outweighed the bad" is a bizarre stance to take. Sorry, but that puts him in Mugabe territory which is something I thought I'd never say about Mandela.

 

[bobmcfc]

I don't know much about it personally but for all the hate coming his way I can only say this

Perhaps in the dark days of South Africa where you have no rights, no freedom and you are valued no higher than a dog then perhaps you live by a completely different set of rules. What do you do in a place where you are killed because of the colour of your skin, your women raped, your children beaten ? What do you do when nobody cares ? Who do you tell ? If I had to fight for my family against tyrany then I could honestly say regardless of my morals and values I WOULD kill. I'd say walk a day in that mans shoes and then judge his life. I bet he wishes things could have been different but that would have involved fairness and equality, something many have died for.


RIP Mandela

 

[Phil Meup]

I've got to admit my knowledge on Nelson Mandela is very little so anyone willing to share what they know then that would be great as most people I know see Nelson Mandela as some sort of saint and saviour, that's the impression that I got from the media anyway, that he was some sort of iconic figure to the world??

Is this one of those black and white picture things that have gray areas?

I'd recommend you to read up on it and make up your own mind. You will find it hard to get a balanced view of such a contrasting person on an internet forum.

It is a great life story to read. There is good and bad.

That's far too balanced a view for BM! Leave this forum now!
In my humble opinion his story has the best of humanity and the worst, ie, himself and his power to forgive, against the horrors of the apartheid system.
Hearing stuff like the Special AKA on the radio ('Free nelson Mandela!') makes me pine for when some musicians tried to effect change. Can't imagine Ollie Murs doing 'Free Pussy Riot' anytime soon.<br /><br />-- Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:23 pm --<br /><br />

I don't know much about it personally but for all the hate coming his way I can only say this

Perhaps in the dark days of South Africa where you have no rights, no freedom and you are valued no higher than a dog then perhaps you live by a completely different set of rules. What do you do in a place where you are killed because of the colour of your skin, your women raped, your children beaten ? What do you do when nobody cares ? Who do you tell ? If I had to fight for my family against tyrany then I could honestly say regardless of my morals and values I WOULD kill. I'd say walk a day in that mans shoes and then judge his life. I bet he wishes things could have been different but that would have involved fairness and equality, something many have died for.


RIP Mandela

You put that very well.

 

[mcmanus]

I don't know much about it personally but for all the hate coming his way I can only say this

Perhaps in the dark days of South Africa where you have no rights, no freedom and you are valued no higher than a dog then perhaps you live by a completely different set of rules. What do you do in a place where you are killed because of the colour of your skin, your women raped, your children beaten ? What do you do when nobody cares ? Who do you tell ? If I had to fight for my family against tyrany then I could honestly say regardless of my morals and values I WOULD kill. I'd say walk a day in that mans shoes and then judge his life. I bet he wishes things could have been different but that would have involved fairness and equality, something many have died for.


RIP Mandela

Yet another top post.