New fans/tourists are embarrassing

[crystal_mais]

Give it another 20 or so years and I will have been supporting City as long as my dad did.

You may remember the thread I started when he sadly passed away. He was a real Blue, as Blue as they come.

Saw good years and extremely fallow ones too, as mots City fans have and then BOOM the late 60's and early 70's happened and he was there too.

As Trigger (who was a very close friend of dads') will point out dad stopped going to the match some years ago, even though City were still central to who he was, how he felt about himself.

Back in '68 when he and iirc 5 others were belting down the old A1 back from Newcastle in an MGB one of them had just watched his first game.

That plastic fan only went to Newcastle because City were in with a shout of winning the title, he readily admitted to being a 'glory hunter' but he bought a season ticket the next season and has done every season since - Liam, do the maths he now has far more City following years home and many, many times away than you.

I personally don't go to the matches as often as I would like anymore either, circumstances mean that I have to watch from afar but I was there on the old Kippax for about 17 seasons (as a paying punter not a local jibber), I was there when we all went to Stoke on boxing day, I was there when we went to Notts County in the cup to see their keeper play out of his skin.

What I am trying to say Liam is that, right now you think you are THE type of fan than deserves more recognition or plaudits but to me and others like my dad and his mates, like Trigger for example, you could be considered a lightweight who is barely fit to talk about our great club because you havent suffered enough yet.

It all depends what each persons POV is and it a very personal thing.

But I know there will likely be a time when you are 41 or 51 or 61 when you no longer go as often as you do now and a snotty nosed lad in his late teens or early twenties looks down his nose at you as he hasnt seen you there before. Perhaps he may be the one who is sat in the seat you currently call yours?

And finally one last point, I am, and my dad was, always happy to take new people to the games with us. I know a lot of other people do that as well.

We love(d) nothing more than introducing others to the experience of being a Blue. Some keep it up, others drop it like a hot spud.

But I suppose we should never have done that really should we?

And right now, as we take a snapshot of the City fan base your opinion matters more because you go to every game.

But then perhaps the fact that I have likely watched City more often than you (including reserves, youth games etc) you should ask me for permission to talk about my club before you type a single fucking word?

But I welcome all newcomers, as you are to me, to City and encourage them to get as fully involved as possible.

So Liam, welcome to the City faithful - and, working to your rules of fandom I herby give you my permission to carry on being a Blue and supporting my club, my dad's club, my grandad's club.

Look after them will you, and make sure that when, in the future, you hand the supporting role over to someone else there is in fact someone else left to hand it over to.

Truy excellent post there mate

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Taking the distance from the back yard wall of my house (94 Thornton Road) and the back perimeter wall of the Kippax/Platt Lane stands ( Please note NOT Umbro Stand ) at the most generous to be 20 feet I reckon I win.

And as I watched many games from my bedroom window from my lofty top bunk position, again I feel I win.

You see, everyone else is a lightweight, fly by night, johnny come lately fan really.

;-)

I'm closer than 20ft. You are only up to the perimeter wall. I'm in the fucking Main Stand playing tick-e-it and british bulldog by then.

Listen to you and your laaah de daaah Main Stand attitude ;-)

I bet your dad wasn't the postie for Maine Road those was he?

****pulls shirt over head and runs around room****

Family a bit closer to club legendary status than that.

*********pulls out a few trinkets and runs around the room screaming 'never be trumped;)************

 

[fbloke]

I'm closer than 20ft. You are only up to the perimeter wall. I'm in the fucking Main Stand playing tick-e-it and british bulldog by then.

Listen to you and your laaah de daaah Main Stand attitude ;-)

I bet your dad wasn't the postie for Maine Road those was he?

****pulls shirt over head and runs around room****

Family a bit closer to club legendary status than that.

*********pulls out a few trinkets and runs around the room screaming 'never be trumped;)************

****kicks cat****

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

.

But were you at Bristol Rovers in the cup the midweek they announced Gary Flipflop as the sub ;)

(I was - whilst they were playing in Bath wasn't it?)

Correct!

 

[Bluebird1]

Over-sized pedant!

;-)

Is that a foot specialist?

Hope so, could do with having my feet rubbed;-)

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Thinking more about it, I disagree with this whole logic of "gloryhunter". You guys understand that they don't tend to show Stoke vs Wigan much in the US? It's all games involving the top teams. How were they meant to pick us up without ever having the chance to watch us?
Invariably, people sit and watch a team and build an admiration for something. This is why Arsenal have so many foreign fans, because they played fantastic football which attracted people to watch them more and then learn about the club. This is why Wigan don't, they aren't attractive except possibly as an underdog.
This building admiration is exactly what been a fan is. I mean at the very core of the idea of fandom, is that you build an admiration for something that eventually becomes an obsession.

Some people didn't have the luxury to be born inside of the M60. Some didn't have the privilege to have a father or brother was was in to football. Does this mean that they are permanently stuck in the footballing ether? Why? Who says?

I will take issue with this because it goes to the crux of the matter regarding my personal view on this subject.

And, yes, that is a personal view, before the more hysterical amongst us wet themselves and wrongly see it as some sort of violent crusade to ethnically cleanse the crowd.

I fundamentally disagree with this notion that being a fan of a football club is exclusively based on admiration. Without doubt, for a certain type of person, looking to get a certain something out of football, it is.

But historically, and still for the majority (just about, I think) of people, the club that they support has nothing to do with admiration for a certain ethos.

It is all to do with geography and/or family. Now, it is unfashionable to cite geography and it is, in certain parts, laughably painted as some sort of fascist concept or backwards view of world business to suggest that geography is relevant to football clubs and their fans.

However, that is nonsense, in my view. Geography is and has been the central and fundamental tenant of football and football support for, well, ever.

This is not a franchise system. These clubs were formed to represent geographical areas. They take the name of those areas. They play in those areas. They represent the people of those areas. To seek to discount this and club that such comments are somehow stuck in the past is absolute nonsense. Yet, as more and more people seek out sporting success stories to attach themselves to, there are more and more voices that have a huge vested interest in totally detaching the concept of geography from football clubs. When they are joined by those who are desperate for their clubs to grow rich on such people's cravings for success (both other fans and the money men at the clubs) it is easy to imagine that, yes, football clubs are no longer central to the areas they represent and have no attachment to those places. And, so the thinking goes, therefore why should the 'fans'.

Well I disagree with that completely.

I don't support Manchester City because I have a deep seated appreciation for the ethos of the club under Swales. Or because I admired the football played under a certain manager. In fact, I can honestly say that I know no-one, amongst dozens of City fans, that does either. I support City because they represent where I am from and because of family links.

The notion of supporting a club because of admiration for a random part of their set-up/history is bizarre.

Look at it this way. I have never seen football played in the way Barca play it. I would watch them whenever I can on TV, often to the detriment of other plans. Yes, I go to bed late or cancel nights out sometimes to do so. I do so because I admire their football more than any other team I've ever seen.

But does this overwhelming admiration mean that I am a fan of theirs? Well, only in the very loosest sense of the word. Does it mean that I would ever say to anyone that I am a 'fan' of Barcelona? Of course not. I'm not. Would I ever consider comparing my admiration for them and staying up late to watch some of their games to that of Catalans who have a historical and geographical connection to the club that goes well beyond 'admiration'? No I wouldn't. Would I ever consider myself someone other than a bloke that has nothing to do with them but has the utmost respect for what they do and how they do it? No.

Yet, it seems that by many people's definitions I should be telling people how big a Barca man I am, pontificating about just that on the internet and aiming to, sometime in the future, turn up at the Nou Camp and consider myself just the same as all those who have supported Barca all their lives and have a real connection to the club - regardless of their success.

Well, yes, I would feel a complete prick and a fraud doing that. Yet I am expected to change my outlet completely when a similar situation occurs at City?

(This is a good point to state that I have no interest in ever trying to impose my views on others and I am nothing other than the face of hospitality at any match to those who might fit that bill. I don't want to spoil their day but I do question their thinking - in my head, not to their face).

I take issue with the notion that people must attach themselves to something. I will watch any NFL on TV. I love the tactical aspect of the game. I could genuinely be consider a fan of the sport. Yet, I have never, ever, felt the urge to brand myself a fan of a team.

Why should I? I like the game. Definitely. But I don't have any feeling for a team. I have nothing invested in them. There have been many teams I admire greatly, returning to that theme, but isn't it extremely childish to want to attach myself to that team in order to somehow bask in their reflective glory? Even if that glory isn't silverware, isn't being desperate to be viewed by others as "one of that team" just a little bit strange?

What would I gain from it, other than some sort of sense of belonging or ownership? And why would I want them? Those concepts have nothing at all to do with my feelings towards the sport and all to do with my need to, as City realise with their saying, 'be part of something'.

And the whole concept of having to be part of something, even if it is in such a tenuous manner as to only being part of it by dint of simply saying that you are, is needy, childish and pathetic in my view. Not just in sport, but in any aspect of life. To manufacture a relationship is, in my mind, unfathomable. The only motivations I can attach to it are negative emotions and needs of a very poor order.

Why would a sane, mature adult need to enhance their love of something by manufacturing an attachment or support for a previous totally unrelated entity? It can only be for reasons of self delusion and self-aggrandisement.

I could go on to talk about a huge amount of other sporting teams that I admire greatly. Or other movements and concepts around the world, much more important than football, that I have great admiration for. But I will always return to the question - why would I be desperate to translate my admiration into a desire for people to view me as part of those entities?

Simply put, I just find it all very, very, very needy. Even more so when people shun their local set up in order to manufacture an attachment (usually immediately term as a 'love/passion') to a completely unrelated set up.

(and yes, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, etc, etc, etc)

Oh, and one more thing. Why is this sort of thing always subject to double standards when it comes to international sport. Millions of people will invent all sorts of reasons and justifications for their manufactured attachment to a completely unrelated team, yet most of them will consider it treason to do a similar thing with international sport. I have never received anything approaching a logical answer to why a United fan from Dublin would not also support the Spanish national team at the expense of their native Ireland.

 

[Suffolk Blue]

JohnMaddocksAxe wrote - I take issue with the notion that people must attach themselves to something. Well we all do that in some way or another, having spent over 24 years in the Army I still feel a deep attachment to my old Regiment, it's the same with football ultimately we choose our attachment based on local-ism, family or wanting to be like a mate in the playground. I know many a blue that chose City to be different in a family of reds and has suffered stick for many a year because of it, sometimes we can't help ourselves. I once asked a Padre why we can deny our god, cheat on our wives and lie to her children but will never deny allegiance to our teams - his reply 'tribalism'.

I didn't know sites like this existed a couple of years back, glad I found it makes me feel more attached, rambling now I'll ask the nurse for some medicine!

 

[moomba]

I've got to disagree with JMA.

While I have family background from Manchester it isn't why I supported the club. And when I first supported the club I felt nothing like the love I do for it now.

I also would consider myself a fan of Barcelona, I rarely watch them nowadays and don't particularly care if they win or lose. With City it is a totally different feeling, and thats not down to geography or family history.

While I consider myself a fan of Barcelona I wouldn't get into a discussion with a Catalan over who is the bigger supporter or more righteous in their support of the club. Mainly because I don't care if someone else thinks I'm not as big a supporter of the club. So long as I'm happy with my way of supporting a club (be it City, Barca or anyone) it's none of anyone elses business.

 

[teddykgb]

Wow, just got back to the US from my trip to Manchester this week and this is just an incredibly annoying thing to see on bluemoon today. I had a fantastic time, enjoyed the hell out of the city and the two games I attended, spent far too much money on such a shitty exchange rate, and come back to see this garbage posted on here again.

To the poster above, moaning about how the teams are local and the international double standard and all that nonsense, look at the squad sheets and get a clue. These teams stopped being local a long, long, long time ago. Hell, I've been plowing through Gary James' excellent book and even at the turn of the last century you're reading about players being imported. The international stuff is one of the biggest red herrings I've ever read.

One thing those of you who live in the UK need to really learn to understand is that the ignorance of City, or really any team in the PL, prior to the last few years is something you can't hold against the rest of the world. Most of you take for granted that City has always been there, that football has always been there, because it has been for you. For those of us abroad, it's only recently that Premiership football has been available on television in any meaningful way. Prior to that, you had to find a bar that had one game on, or get some special directv packages here in the states. Now, between ESPN, Fox Soccer, and Fox Soccer+ (which I pay dearly for, i assure you), I can get a weekend experience close to what you guys have been experiencing for years now. Even 5 years ago, this just wasn't a possibility for most of us here in the US. This stuff really is very new to us, and it's becoming more and more popular as it's becoming more and more accessible, which makes complete sense. More and more, Americans are becoming exposed to the best and most competitive league in the world, and it's drawing in people here and I'm sure in other countries as well. This is just a new reality, every team will be more global, the only way to stop it is to revert the TV rights to be closed and local only, as it just isn't possible to really become a fan of a team via box scores.

I mean, this is a problem we struggle with in the states. I live in Boston, and I've supported the Red Sox and Celtics and Bruins my whole life. When we've had success, of course we've had many people start showing up at the stadium with pink red sox hats on and all kinds of outrageous things are overheard at the stadiums, so I get it, but I really think many of you are just pointing your cannons at the wrong thing. The true "tests" of fandom are knowledge, passion, empathy -- really effort... not nationality or proximity. And people do need to be judged on a scale, as it's not possible for me to ever wax philosophic on the goal that Colin Bell scored or the real tragedy of Lake's injury because I simply wasn't around to see it. Bonus points for those of you who can, and surely if we were ever around each other I'd buy you a pint and listen to you tell the tale, but it doesn't invalidate people who really are trying. You need to learn to see the foreigners as you would your own children, as our footballing years are just as simple, and our range of experiences are just as limited. You're going to hear and see some silly things, because that's what you do when you're new and excited and you're just getting up to speed. But none of that matters, what matters is the effort that's put in to support the club moving forward, just as it is with a child. Some of you have kids who latched on and became diehards like their proud papas, and for some I'm sure the opposite. I guess my point, which is belabored at this point, is just that this stuff is new to many people, and what matters is the efforts and seriousness of these people moving forward, not what they weren't able to experience before experiencing it were ever a possibility. You're holding people to an impossible standard. As I was sort of alluding to when bringing up the Red Sox, for an example, if one of you came over here and put on a Sox cap and we met at the stadium, I wouldn't begrudge you some photos and some silly questions about Ted Williams or anything like that. For me, the question would be if you knew the current players on the field, the current rivalries, and more or less what's going on right now, as that's all I can rightly expect you to know. If you can hold a conversation with me about the 2nd baseman, then you're clearly a real fan and there's no reason for any angst about it.

 

[Blue Pimp]

As usual Liam types, posts then thinks.
It comes with the territory, we will continue to get tourists and let them carry on coming it is the way it will be. As the American poster has says, it is annoying to read this rubbish, it is part of the world we now inhabit.