New York City FC Thread (new away kit P245)

Did NYCFC pay £70m for Lampard?


Does it matter? Do you somehow earn the right to get angry over a transfer depending on how much your club spent on the player? If Messi ran down his contract and signed for us on a free, then in mid-July announced that he was going back to Barca, would you shrug your shoulders and go "oh well, we spent no money on him therefore I can't really argue that we've lost something we should've had"?

This was a Derby match at home.

To understand this, you really need to understand the politics of their fanbase. It's an open secret that their main supporters group - the Third Rail - is coordinated and run by the NYCFC office. I don't mean as in they link up a lot with the club, I mean as in the club essentially tells them where to go and what to do, and when NYCFC says "jump" they say "how high?". This is a serious faux pas in American sporting culture, where having a supporters group run by the club is not too far removed from being seen as like the North Korea fans at the 2010 World Cup - i.e. paid to be there in order to make it look like you have actual fans. The non-TR-affiliated fans detest this and are furious that the club has opened itself up to this criticism. It also doesn't help that TR are awfully organised, have some of the worst songs going, and actively engage in attempting to drown out the other groups who raise their own chants, or have been known to use racism as a way to denigrate the Hispanic groups that are forming. Again, it's something of an open secret that they do this partly because NYCFC, and therefore CFG, have actively encouraged them to act demeaningly towards the other, non-official groups. Small wonder they build up so much resentment for CFG and MCFC when there is so much evidence that they are damaging the club from within.

I'd been on their forums since the start, I signed up around May 2014. Whilst I agree somewhat with what Falastur says regarding some City fans, as there was quite a few who came across as Rag-ish. But I noticed a lot of posters from here, like @why Always Set I believe and definitely @grandsolo (Solo doesn't have many good things to say about the place!) who were just being normal posters, trying to defend MCFC getting shot down by most other posters. I personally gave up with the place a few months back, who know's I may go back one day but I'd had enough when someone threatened to give up his season ticket because the home kit didn't have Orange trim...

Grandsolo was banned because, as many, he used the "you owe your club to CFG so stop being negative about them" comment. Seriously, we would've accepted that if it weren't for the fact that it was probably said a couple of hundred times by a couple of dozen different posters, and it's a very provocative thing to say when the fans are taking negatively to the same group over the way that they are running the club.

In fairness, I see some of their points. I remember back in the very early days of the team, Claudio Reyna held a live Q&A over facebook where he invited questions about the future of the team. One of the questions was "what will the identity of the team be?" His response was "we want the fans to create the team's identity" - particularly prescient since already, before the crest or the shirt or virtually anything had ever been unveiled, the team was already being mocked as Manchester City USA. That comment won a lot of fans.

Six months later, CFG had unveiled a sky blue kit, sponsored by Etihad, sent their manager off to Manchester to be taught "the City way", with a badge many are suggesting was consciously designed on our old circular crest and told them that they would be receiving a handful of our academy players, thus ensuring they couldn't get away from constant references to City.

A further 12 months on and we had taken their second ever player for a full season and only provided one of the promised four loanees, thus upsetting those who were willing to look on the CFG connections as actually potentially a good thing on the field. They created a City Voice for NYCFC, and have systematically ignored everything the fans have asked for on it.

I could name so many more things that CFG has got wrong over there. The simple fact is that CFG have not just upset the fans, they've provided countless examples of how not to run a club, so it's small wonder that mentioning CFG and even saying that they should be grateful to them is like putting a red rag before a bull.

The major issue I have is with their "fans" claiming to be just that, fans. No, you're not. You may be in time, give it a season or two, but at this stage you haven't "served your time" to class yourself as a fan. They had people talking about how they were "die hard fans" before NYCFC had even kicked a ball! Before they, technically, existed as anything other than a concept. That's borderline mental illness. People who "became NYCFC fans" when they came into existence had to fall into one of the following categories prior to that stage:-

You're missing the point. The majority of the NYCFC fans - or rather, the vocal ones on the forum - are from Category 4, which you didn't add: those who tried to follow the Red Bulls and the Cosmos as their "local team", and just couldn't stand the teams and refused to continue following them. Sure, there are definitely people new to football, and there are definitely bandwagoners, but a much higher percentage than you would believe were people who had refused to commit to a MLS team because none of their local clubs were right for them. Yet more were of a floating category of fans who did follow the Red Bulls but had been drifting away from them for some time and simply found NYCFC to be the catalyst which made them finally see reason. To be honest, this does not sound much different from the comments of MCFC fans, both new and old, on this very forum who give a testimony about how they went to a scum match, or a dipper game, or whatever, and thought they were a fan only to go to Maine Road/see City on TV and suddenly be converted.

What's more, people who say that on this forum get the internet version of a standing ovation for it, whereas we mock them for never feeling right at one club and moving on to NYCFC as soon as they had the chance. Heck, it's worth mentioning here that many Red Bulls fans actively refuse to call their team that and instead refer to the team as the MetroStars (the old name before Red Bull bought them). When even their own "die hards" have an identity crisis, it's not hard to see why their fans are leaving in droves for a new team.

As for the Cosmos, they are a new company who have nicked the name of a long-dead club and think that they - club and fans alike - can act with the arrogance of actually being the club with history. When you add in that the Cosmos' ownership are currently on a one-club mission to persuade FIFA and the US FA to abandon MLS and declare their league the top division of American football it's not hard to see why they are also hated. Oh, and they also have a reputation for fans beating up isolated fans of other clubs who have no chance of fighting back.

Honestly, given all that I've said on previous points, it's a miracle that we are keeping these disenfranchised fans, because you can be sure that the Red Bulls and Cosmos fans constantly mock them for all the reasons that should really apply to their own clubs first. The funniest comments are when Red Bulls fans accuse NYCFC of being a corporate toy for MCFC, as if they don't exist solely to sell energy drinks.

I get the bitterness over Lampard as many bought season tickets on the premise that he would be a NYCFC player and then it emerged he hadn't even been registered with them at all. It's unfortunate but they should still understand that without City there wouldn't be a NYCFC for starters, and secondly Lampard would never have gone there. He'd be in LA or with the New York Red Bulls.

The thing is - and this is more a reply to Matty, but as XenForo doesn't really like quote-in-quote and I can't be bothered after an hour of typing to use code to force it, then whatever - the reason they are so angsty about buying season tickets on the premise of Lampard, you again have to understand how MLS works to understand that this is an issue. MLS is a league which has a stupid amount of rules designed to penalise teams in order to keep everyone level. Chief amongst these are the DPs, or the "Beckham rule" - worth mentioning because you've got to remember that DPs weren't even allowed until they changed the rules to let him join LA Galaxy - and because the DPs are so much better than the other players, clubs live and die by the ability of their ones. If a team recruits them well, they are odds-on to walk the league and finish well. If a team recruits badly, they are going to struggle. If a club has none they might as well not compete. Therefore, signing Lampard was like a statement to the league that NYCFC wanted to be a title-challenging team. Then he gets taken away from them and they still haven't signed a third DP, so Villa is left all alone where he can easily be closed out of games and it's no wonder they are suddenly at the complete opposite end of the table from where they promised to be. If you watched some of the games when NYCFC were on their losing run, you could actually see the disappointment turn to upset turn to resentment as he realised he had been signed to play for a team where no-one could support him. Having Lampard could've changed all that, and the fans had no reason to believe it wouldn't happen back when they first bought their season tickets.
 
@Falastur where did NYCFC "promised to be" the top of the table?

Also, please can you provide some evidence (and I'm not including Twitter Rumour here) on where a supporters group such as Third Rail is literally ran by the club?
This accusation opens up a whole can of worms as you may know in recent years 1894 Group were formed over here, with club endorsement.
But I haven't seen anything about 1894 Group being owned by City... Yes they allow singing sections, fan displays but this has been continually administrated by fans, and fundraising by fans for displays.
 
New York fans in any sport are arrogant wankers, so it's no surprise that the NYCFC message boards are full of arrogant wankers who ban people for asking that they not be negative toward the CFG who created the club they supposedly support.
 
Grandsolo was banned because, as many, he used the "you owe your club to CFG so stop being negative about them" comment. Seriously, we would've accepted that if it weren't for the fact that it was probably said a couple of hundred times by a couple of dozen different posters, and it's a very provocative thing to say when the fans are taking negatively to the same group over the way that they are running the club.

You mean essentially you're running your forum in a fascist way and banning dissent. Classy.

Also, the football club wasn't always exactly honest with the fanbase and plans changed as new circumstances developed. Well fuck me, I'll call the newspapers.

And I absolutely adore the "NYCFC has officially asked the Third Rail to denigrate other supporters clubs" conspiracy theory.

You don't seem to understand that all you're doing is providing further evidence that NYCFC "fans" have no idea how to actually support a football club that isn't on the other side of the globe and think that their experience gloryhunting where they never had to deal with club politics or interaction would be the same as following a local team. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE SHIT ON YOU. You completely weren't ready for the reality of what supporting an actual club was like, had an overly idealised notion that it would all be easy and smooth and you'd get everything that you ever wanted, and now are actually shitting on the club that you claim to "support" because it didn't work out how the expectations in your head are.

This is why the Football Supporters Federation exists and why despite the average banter there is always a mutual and shared respect between the proper fans of football clubs. Because we understand that football fandom is a fight between commercial realities and supporter culture and we fight that as much as we can for every inch. But when we lose that fight we understand that it is because there are larger forces at work and don't turn on the very club that is representing us and our community. We might turn on the people, sure, and call for resignations or whatever. But you never turn on the club. The fact that this needs to be explained to NYCFC "supporters" shows how miles away from having a proper fanbase you still continue to be. You should be insulting Reyna or Glick and wanting their head on a silver platter for your mostly invented and bullshit reasons. Instead you insult NYCFC and the CFG like that's going to do a single bit of good.

It's also why literally the most hated club in England is FCUM. Because they broke the cardinal rule and turned on the club instead of the people, and why they have almost no respect from most proper football fans.

In 5-10 years time once all of your gloryhunting whinging dickhead mates have fucked off then you might have a decent forum and fanbase. Until then you can stick with your Mike Garbowskis and the like because you're the only moron who will gladly take them.
 
@Falastur where did NYCFC "promised to be" the top of the table?

Also, please can you provide some evidence (and I'm not including Twitter Rumour here) on where a supporters group such as Third Rail is literally ran by the club?
This accusation opens up a whole can of worms as you may know in recent years 1894 Group were formed over here, with club endorsement.
But I haven't seen anything about 1894 Group being owned by City... Yes they allow singing sections, fan displays but this has been continually administrated by fans, and fundraising by fans for displays.

Of course. This is an ultimatum made by a Third Rail board member over his growing disillusionment with the say the group is run:

http://www.reddit.com/r/NYCFC/comments/3b47z6/third_rail_founder_and_board_member_billy_howell/

As an admin on the forum, I've got to know - and meet - a number of people in the leadership of the various other supporters groups, and many of them are former TR members - a few of them are former board members - who have already quit in disgust. I can personally vouch for this information - I knew about this before it became public.
 
You mean essentially you're running your forum in a fascist way and banning dissent. Classy.

Also, the football club wasn't always exactly honest with the fanbase and plans changed as new circumstances developed. Well fuck me, I'll call the newspapers.

And I absolutely adore the "NYCFC has officially asked the Third Rail to denigrate other supporters clubs" conspiracy theory.

You don't seem to understand that all you're doing is providing further evidence that NYCFC "fans" have no idea how to actually support a football club that isn't on the other side of the globe and think that their experience gloryhunting where they never had to deal with club politics or interaction would be the same as following a local team. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE SHIT ON YOU. You completely weren't ready for the reality of what supporting an actual club was like, had an overly idealised notion that it would all be easy and smooth and you'd get everything that you ever wanted, and now are actually shitting on the club that you claim to "support" because it didn't work out how the expectations in your head are.

This is why the Football Supporters Federation exists and why despite the average banter there is always a mutual and shared respect between the proper fans of football clubs. Because we understand that football fandom is a fight between commercial realities and supporter culture and we fight that as much as we can for every inch. But when we lose that fight we understand that it is because there are larger forces at work and don't turn on the very club that is representing us and our community. We might turn on the people, sure, and call for resignations or whatever. But you never turn on the club. The fact that this needs to be explained to NYCFC "supporters" shows how miles away from having a proper fanbase you still continue to be. You should be insulting Reyna or Glick and wanting their head on a silver platter for your mostly invented and bullshit reasons. Instead you insult NYCFC and the CFG like that's going to do a single bit of good.

It's also why literally the most hated club in England is FCUM. Because they broke the cardinal rule and turned on the club instead of the people, and why they have almost no respect from most proper football fans.

In 5-10 years time once all of your gloryhunting whinging dickhead mates have fucked off then you might have a decent forum and fanbase. Until then you can stick with your Mike Garbowskis and the like because you're the only moron who will gladly take them.

Here here

They've had 4 months of playing shit

Try 40 years
 
As I recall it Third Rail applied to become "The official supporters group" meaning that they would be affiliated with the club in ways the other fan groups are not.
Nothing odd about it really..
Just recall how City fans broke away from OSC and formed CSA once because they disagreed about office politics within the club.
 
I hate to interrupt all these teething problems and vitriolic points scoring, but could I just suggest that instead of this obsession with stellar signings, it might be more productive for NYCFC to employ a defensive coach, who can teach his full backs how to block crosses, and his central defenders how to anticipate, and attack the ball, rather than waiting for Bradley Wright Phillips to shoot. Perhaps he could also instruct his central midfield how to shield the ball when the opponents are closing down the space.
 
Does it matter? Do you somehow earn the right to get angry over a transfer depending on how much your club spent on the player? If Messi ran down his contract and signed for us on a free, then in mid-July announced that he was going back to Barca, would you shrug your shoulders and go "oh well, we spent no money on him therefore I can't really argue that we've lost something we should've had"?



To understand this, you really need to understand the politics of their fanbase. It's an open secret that their main supporters group - the Third Rail - is coordinated and run by the NYCFC office. I don't mean as in they link up a lot with the club, I mean as in the club essentially tells them where to go and what to do, and when NYCFC says "jump" they say "how high?". This is a serious faux pas in American sporting culture, where having a supporters group run by the club is not too far removed from being seen as like the North Korea fans at the 2010 World Cup - i.e. paid to be there in order to make it look like you have actual fans. The non-TR-affiliated fans detest this and are furious that the club has opened itself up to this criticism. It also doesn't help that TR are awfully organised, have some of the worst songs going, and actively engage in attempting to drown out the other groups who raise their own chants, or have been known to use racism as a way to denigrate the Hispanic groups that are forming. Again, it's something of an open secret that they do this partly because NYCFC, and therefore CFG, have actively encouraged them to act demeaningly towards the other, non-official groups. Small wonder they build up so much resentment for CFG and MCFC when there is so much evidence that they are damaging the club from within.



Grandsolo was banned because, as many, he used the "you owe your club to CFG so stop being negative about them" comment. Seriously, we would've accepted that if it weren't for the fact that it was probably said a couple of hundred times by a couple of dozen different posters, and it's a very provocative thing to say when the fans are taking negatively to the same group over the way that they are running the club.

In fairness, I see some of their points. I remember back in the very early days of the team, Claudio Reyna held a live Q&A over facebook where he invited questions about the future of the team. One of the questions was "what will the identity of the team be?" His response was "we want the fans to create the team's identity" - particularly prescient since already, before the crest or the shirt or virtually anything had ever been unveiled, the team was already being mocked as Manchester City USA. That comment won a lot of fans.

Six months later, CFG had unveiled a sky blue kit, sponsored by Etihad, sent their manager off to Manchester to be taught "the City way", with a badge many are suggesting was consciously designed on our old circular crest and told them that they would be receiving a handful of our academy players, thus ensuring they couldn't get away from constant references to City.

A further 12 months on and we had taken their second ever player for a full season and only provided one of the promised four loanees, thus upsetting those who were willing to look on the CFG connections as actually potentially a good thing on the field. They created a City Voice for NYCFC, and have systematically ignored everything the fans have asked for on it.

I could name so many more things that CFG has got wrong over there. The simple fact is that CFG have not just upset the fans, they've provided countless examples of how not to run a club, so it's small wonder that mentioning CFG and even saying that they should be grateful to them is like putting a red rag before a bull.



You're missing the point. The majority of the NYCFC fans - or rather, the vocal ones on the forum - are from Category 4, which you didn't add: those who tried to follow the Red Bulls and the Cosmos as their "local team", and just couldn't stand the teams and refused to continue following them. Sure, there are definitely people new to football, and there are definitely bandwagoners, but a much higher percentage than you would believe were people who had refused to commit to a MLS team because none of their local clubs were right for them. Yet more were of a floating category of fans who did follow the Red Bulls but had been drifting away from them for some time and simply found NYCFC to be the catalyst which made them finally see reason. To be honest, this does not sound much different from the comments of MCFC fans, both new and old, on this very forum who give a testimony about how they went to a scum match, or a dipper game, or whatever, and thought they were a fan only to go to Maine Road/see City on TV and suddenly be converted.

What's more, people who say that on this forum get the internet version of a standing ovation for it, whereas we mock them for never feeling right at one club and moving on to NYCFC as soon as they had the chance. Heck, it's worth mentioning here that many Red Bulls fans actively refuse to call their team that and instead refer to the team as the MetroStars (the old name before Red Bull bought them). When even their own "die hards" have an identity crisis, it's not hard to see why their fans are leaving in droves for a new team.

As for the Cosmos, they are a new company who have nicked the name of a long-dead club and think that they - club and fans alike - can act with the arrogance of actually being the club with history. When you add in that the Cosmos' ownership are currently on a one-club mission to persuade FIFA and the US FA to abandon MLS and declare their league the top division of American football it's not hard to see why they are also hated. Oh, and they also have a reputation for fans beating up isolated fans of other clubs who have no chance of fighting back.

Honestly, given all that I've said on previous points, it's a miracle that we are keeping these disenfranchised fans, because you can be sure that the Red Bulls and Cosmos fans constantly mock them for all the reasons that should really apply to their own clubs first. The funniest comments are when Red Bulls fans accuse NYCFC of being a corporate toy for MCFC, as if they don't exist solely to sell energy drinks.



The thing is - and this is more a reply to Matty, but as XenForo doesn't really like quote-in-quote and I can't be bothered after an hour of typing to use code to force it, then whatever - the reason they are so angsty about buying season tickets on the premise of Lampard, you again have to understand how MLS works to understand that this is an issue. MLS is a league which has a stupid amount of rules designed to penalise teams in order to keep everyone level. Chief amongst these are the DPs, or the "Beckham rule" - worth mentioning because you've got to remember that DPs weren't even allowed until they changed the rules to let him join LA Galaxy - and because the DPs are so much better than the other players, clubs live and die by the ability of their ones. If a team recruits them well, they are odds-on to walk the league and finish well. If a team recruits badly, they are going to struggle. If a club has none they might as well not compete. Therefore, signing Lampard was like a statement to the league that NYCFC wanted to be a title-challenging team. Then he gets taken away from them and they still haven't signed a third DP, so Villa is left all alone where he can easily be closed out of games and it's no wonder they are suddenly at the complete opposite end of the table from where they promised to be. If you watched some of the games when NYCFC were on their losing run, you could actually see the disappointment turn to upset turn to resentment as he realised he had been signed to play for a team where no-one could support him. Having Lampard could've changed all that, and the fans had no reason to believe it wouldn't happen back when they first bought their season tickets.
So in essence I got banned for speaking the truth. Please tell me how "you owe CFG for creating NYCFC" is ban worthy yet "fuck MCFC" is fully acceptable
 
New York fans in any sport are arrogant wankers, so it's no surprise that the NYCFC message boards are full of arrogant wankers who ban people for asking that they not be negative toward the CFG who created the club they supposedly support.

This^

How anybody gives these cunts the time of day is beyond me.
 

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