Newcastle 1-1 City post match thread

[Bluekiwi]

A line of what your sniffing please.
................................. but don't come on a post-match thread expecting me to "cheer up" when that car crash of a performance cost me time off work and fuel and ticket money.

You represent the fans that I feel sorry for after performances like that - it cost you money!!!!
All I had to do was get out of bed at 6:30am and switch on the computer for the video feed - so yes, I was pissed off but I'm not out of pocket.

 

[Neville Kneville]

What does that say about Txiki's recruitment? We're three years in, he has spent millions. Yet we have one midfielder fit for purpose. Who's 31 before the season is out.

No one would put Ya Ya and Fernando together. It's shite. But that unfortunately leaves Fernandinho playing every game.

Fernando & Delph were shit against West Brom.
I imagine Delph is too limited to flourish with YaYa.

It's all well and good saying we're shit in midfield without Fernandinho. I'm pretty sure Pellegrini knows that. Fact remains, Fernandinho is not a robot and Ya Ya & Fernando should have enough about them to win the midfield battle against two Championship players. If hey haven't, there is no point them being in the squad.

Or we do what most other teams do, & play a different formation. There are very few players in world football who could carry off a two in midfield with two wide players and two upfront & get away with it over a sewson in the Premier League. Especially if the centre backs aren't that quick. That's why Alex Ferguson stopped doing it years ago. We are less tactically astute than the Pisscan was 10 years ago. We used to be ahead of him once.

If anyone thinks the likes of Pogba & Gundogan could pair up & win the title over here, with two wingers they are dreaming. If we sign both they will only be able to play if Pep balances the team around them. If he makes the same mistakes Pellegrini makes every week, he will be in big trouble. But he won't, he'll change it & keep changing it until he gets it right. Even during one game. He won't just stick a bunch of players on the pitch in a formation that doesn't suit them & leave it.

 

[Claytop]

Or we do what most other teams do, & play a different formation. There are very few players in world football who could carry off a two in midfield with two wide players and two upfront & get away with it over a sewson in the Premier League. Especially if the centre backs aren't that quick. That's why Alex Ferguson stopped doing it years ago. We are less tactically astute than the Pisscan was 10 years ago. We used to be ahead of him once.

If anyone thinks the likes of Pogba & Gundogan could pair up & win the title over here, with two wingers they are dreaming. If we sign both they will only be able to play if Pep balances the team around them. If he makes the same mistakes Pellegrini makes every week, he will be in big trouble. But he won't, he'll change it & keep changing it until he gets it right. Even during one game. He won't just stick a bunch of players on the pitch in a formation that doesn't suit them & leave it.

We still have at least 6 more games of it... Although he seems to have sussed it out in the CL, whether by accident or not!

 

[Neville Kneville]

We still have at least 6 more games of it... Although he seems to have sussed it out in the CL, whether by accident or not!

I'm assuming it's him that's sussed it & not the players just sitting deeper in midfield & playing on the counter. His post game version of the PSG game seemed to have us playing cavallier attacking football wheras Aguero's had us being careful & playing on the counter.

If our prehistoric tactical 4 actually play as a Fat Sam English style 442 rather than a Pellegrini style 4222, we look a lot more solid & dangerous on the break. Whether he tells them to do that or they ignore him, & do stuff themselves, like players did with Bobby Robson, is something we may never know. But of course if he throws in Yaya & Silva, together, we can't play that way.

 

[Lemon7277]

This will be the result that comes back to haunt us

 

[coleridge]

A line of what your sniffing please.
But try reading the thread title for once. It's the fucking post-match thread. It's about looking back on the performance shitted out by our current team and coaches. A post-match thread by its very definition is to look back not forward.
"A decent point" - what about the two decent points dropped in a piss poor performance against bloody awful opponents. Newcastle tried, but that's all they did, and it's all they had to do. It's also all they are capable of. They aren't in the bottom three because they are a good team.
Post happy-clappy shit if you want to, but don't come on a post-match thread expecting me to "cheer up" when that car crash of a performance cost me time off work and fuel and ticket money.

I sniff the clear air of freedom. That's why I'll come onto any threads that I like.

 

[schfc6]

Or we do what most other teams do, & play a different formation. There are very few players in world football who could carry off a two in midfield with two wide players and two upfront & get away with it over a sewson in the Premier League. Especially if the centre backs aren't that quick. That's why Alex Ferguson stopped doing it years ago. We are less tactically astute than the Pisscan was 10 years ago. We used to be ahead of him once.

If anyone thinks the likes of Pogba & Gundogan could pair up & win the title over here, with two wingers they are dreaming. If we sign both they will only be able to play if Pep balances the team around them. If he makes the same mistakes Pellegrini makes every week, he will be in big trouble. But he won't, he'll change it & keep changing it until he gets it right. Even during one game. He won't just stick a bunch of players on the pitch in a formation that doesn't suit them & leave it.

So Kante and Drinkwater are good enough to win the title with two strikers and two wingers but Gundogan and Pogba aren't?
Spurs are effectively doing it too. We could go over old ground sgain, but you won't listen and you'll offer your opinion as fact.

Kevin De Bruyne plays as a advanced midfielder. Not a second striker. You'll disgree. You'll disagree, so just read this. More importantly look at De Bruyne's touch map from Chelsea.
http://www.football365.com/news/de-bruyne-pfa-player-of-the-next-year


Our squad doesn't suit 3 central midfielders. You don't sign a £54 million advanced centre midfielder/number 10 to play him out of position. So again, point the finger at Txiki.
We are playing a system that suits our squad most. It's just sadly dependant on one player. Ya Ya would be lazy on occasion and inconsistent in another formation. Delph and Fernando would still be far too limited in possession to offer an balance in a central 3. Not to mention a squad with 4 senior centre midfielders isn't suited to a system that requires 3.
If Txiki wanted us to play 3 centre mids, he should have signed players to suit. He didn't.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So Kante and Drinkwater are good enough to win the title with two strikers and two wingers but Gundogan and Pogba aren't?
Spurs are effectively doing it too. We could go over old ground sgain, but you won't listen and you'll offer your opinion as fact.

Kevin De Bruyne plays as a advanced midfielder. Not a second striker. You'll disgree. You'll disagree, so just read this. More importantly look at De Bruyne's touch map from Chelsea.
http://www.football365.com/news/de-bruyne-pfa-player-of-the-next-year


Our squad doesn't suit 3 central midfielders. You don't sign a £54 million advanced centre midfielder/number 10 to play him out of position. So again, point the finger at Txiki.
We are playing a system that suits our squad most. It's just sadly dependant on one player. Ya Ya would be lazy on occasion and inconsistent in another formation. Delph and Fernando would still be far too limited in possession to offer an balance in a central 3. Not to mention a squad with 4 senior centre midfielders isn't suited to a system that requires 3.
If Txiki wanted us to play 3 centre mids, he should have signed players to suit. He didn't.

Spurs & Leicester absolutely don't play like us. DeBruyne absolutely is playing as support to Aguero. Yes he moves around the pitch. So does Messi.

It's not 'my' idea of how we play it's how we play. The very kind of heat map you refer to was used during tv discussions recently showing DeBruyne. Still had him in a two supporting Aguero who was the main striker. Switch on the tv replay any recent City game watch where DeBruyne is when the oppo have the ball. Watch where he is when Joe Hart has the ball. Same place Edin Dzeko would be on both counts. DeBruyne or Silva being midfielders, will naturally assume more off the cuff positions on the pitch than Dzeko would when playing in the front 2. So would Cantona when he played there. Still no use to us when defending against a high tempo midfield in our half & then add two wingers plus Yaya= trouble.

I'm sure you don't really need me to tell you this as you have actually gone on record on here agreeing that Kev plays this role so I don't undrestand why you have even mentioned it.

My idea for changinv the formation incidetally would be nothing to do with that anyway. Delph Back Yaya centre 4231.

So ridiculous to try it for 5 mins ? So fatal to our chances v Newcastle ?

 

[schfc6]

Spurs & Leicester absolutely don't play like us. DeBruyne absolutely is playing as support to Aguero. Yes he moves around the pitch. So does Messi.

It's not 'my' idea of how we play it's how we play. The very kind of heat map you refer to was used during tv discussions recently showing DeBruyne. Still had him in a two supporting Aguero who was the main striker. Switch on the tv replay any recent City game watch where DeBruyne is when the oppo have the ball. Watch where he is when Joe Hart has the ball. Same place Edin Dzeko would be on both counts. DeBruyne or Silva being midfielders, will naturally assume more off the cuff positions on the pitch than Dzeko would when playing in the front 2. So would Cantona when he played there. Still no use to us when defending against a high tempo midfield in our half & then add two wingers plus Yaya= trouble.

I'm sure you don't really need me to tell you this as you have actually gone on record on here agreeing that Kev plays this role so I don't undrestand why you have even mentioned it.

So you're disagreeing. You're offering your opinion as fact again.

Are you disagreeing with the touch map? That is not a strikers touch map. He touches the ball 3 times in the opposition area in a 3 -0 win where we could have had six. The vast majority of his touches are in the central third.
This accompanies his touch map.
"Like the finest attacking midfielders, De Bruyne is at his best when in his own half. When he strays into attacking territory the opposition can put two players on him to cover the threat, but when picking the ball up deep and dribbling forward, he becomes almost impossible to stop."

Against Chelsea he was running off the back of Mikel. Too deep for either Cahill or Ivanovich to pick up.
Vs PSG, to me it looked Like Motta was asked to look after him. Again running off the back of midfield and too deep for centre backs to mark.
Absolutely nothing like Dzeko.

And as I've asked before, if indeed we are playing this 4222, who is out of position? To me it seems to fit our squad perfectly. Every player in their natural position. How can this flawed formation work so well in some games and then not others? I know why, because it's totally dependant on one player. Fernandinho. It's the alternative formations that will have players all over the place. For me, if it's a case of Delph or De Bruyne being asked to play out of position, then it's Delph Everytime.

Sorry but Leicester absolutely do play with two midfielders, two wingers and two strikers.

For FERNANDO see Drinkwater. Holding midfielder but much better.
For Kante see Fernandinho. All action box to box.
Navas, hard working winger. See Drinkwater.
Silva/Nasri inside forward opperating from wide. See Marhez.
De Bruyne, definition of a number ten/second striker. See Okazaki. Only Okazaki is actually a out and out forward. Illoa his alternative is a target man.
Aguero see Vardy.

Leicester are almost identical to Ferguson's United. Fast, direct, energetic. Two wingers, two strikers and two centre mids.

What any of this has to do with experienced international footballer walking around and miss placing simple passes I've no idea. Tactics should excuse laziness, sloppiness and unprofessionalism. Let alone an inability to perform basic tasks.

All that aside, we are still painfully short in central midfield. No doubt something that will be addressed in the summer. Hopefully.

 

[Neville Kneville]

So you're disagreeing. You're offering your opinion as fact again.

Are you disagreeing with the touch map? That is not a strikers touch map. He touches the ball 3 times in the opposition area in a 3 -0 win where we could have had six. The vast majority of his touches are in the central third.
This accompanies his touch map.
"Like the finest attacking midfielders, De Bruyne is at his best when in his own half. When he strays into attacking territory the opposition can put two players on him to cover the threat, but when picking the ball up deep and dribbling forward, he becomes almost impossible to stop."

Against Chelsea he was running off the back of Mikel. Too deep for either Cahill or Ivanovich to pick up.
Vs PSG, to me it looked Like Motta was asked to look after him. Again running off the back of midfield and too deep for centre backs to mark.
Absolutely nothing like Dzeko.

And as I've asked before, if indeed we are playing this 4222, who is out of position? To me it seems to fit our squad perfectly. Every player in their natural position. How can this flawed formation work so well in some games and then not others? I know why, because it's totally dependant on one player. Fernandinho. It's the alternative formations that will have players all over the place. For me, if it's a case of Delph or De Bruyne being asked to play out of position, then it's Delph Everytime.

Sorry but Leicester absolutely do play with two midfielders, two wingers and two strikers.

For FERNANDO see Drinkwater. Holding midfielder but much better.
For Kante see Fernandinho. All action box to box.
Navas, hard working winger. See Drinkwater.
Silva/Nasri inside forward opperating from wide. See Marhez.
De Bruyne, definition of a number ten/second striker. See Okazaki. Only Okazaki is actually a out and out forward. Illoa his alternative is a target man.
Aguero see Vardy.

Leicester are almost identical to Ferguson's United. Fast, direct, energetic. Two wingers, two strikers and two centre mids.

What any of this has to do with experienced international footballer walking around and miss placing simple passes I've no idea. Tactics should excuse laziness, sloppiness and unprofessionalism. Let alone an inability to perform basic tasks.

All that aside, we are still painfully short in central midfield. No doubt something that will be addressed in the summer. Hopefully.

It is a fact that we play that way not my opinion. That's why I'm calling it a fact. If it was an opinion I would say 'imo'.

You are telling me DeBruyne is one of the 'two' & also telling me to look at his heat map which proves he actually isn't because he isn't in the penalty area enough, then telling me we have the players for a 4222 & there's no problem with a system where the 2nd player in the two doesn't get into the penalty area. Which is it ? Is he shit at his job or is it the system which is shit or is he not playing in a two at all or is he playing in a two but doesn't get in the penalty area on purpose ? I don't understand what your actual position is. Can you not see that this doesn't make sense in any way at all from any possible interpretation I could make of it ? Do we usually play 4222 yes or no ?

Also you are comparing a team which sits in it's own penalty area & whacks long balls at a striker who runs in behind, to a team who tries to play in the oponent's half and does the absolute opposite. Why ?

What is the point in that ? We couldn't pick a side to sit back & whack the ball with the players at our disposal ? Would Sergio Aguero be happy ? Should we sell him then & sign someone from the lower leagues to run more upfront ?

Or perhaps you are suggesting that Pellegrini would be able to take Leicester's players & go all out attack as he likes to do & they would win the title with Huth etc keeping a high line vs people such as Aguero ?

Again I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

My point, in case you missed it, is that City's players as picked by Pellegrini are not suited to the system he uses, which is an attacking 4222. I'll give you one simple example. Silva. Winger ? No. No 10 ? No (not enough goals) Creative player in different team formation? Yes. Another: Nasri ? Same. Yaya box to box mid ? No. Creative player who scores goals? yes. Possible deep creative player in different system ? Yes. DeBruyne, genuine winger ? No. No 10? Possibly. Aguero line leading cf who likes to hold up the ball or get on the end of crosses or chase long balls, win Joe Hart's goalkicks ? No. DeBruyne /Aguero suitable 'two' in system where that happens ? No. Fernando midfield box to box player? No. Def mid good in the air, protect defence as one of a 3? Yes. Delph left wing? NO. Centre mid workhose who can get forward & back as part of a unit? Yes. Run midfield on his own? No. Navas. Wide player who scores goals & provides assists including aerial crosses? No. Bloke who runs about ? Yes.

Anyone: attacking the penalty area to get on the end of crosses as in a 442 or 4222 no.

Kean Bryan, Manu Garcia, Aleix Garcia, Barker, Celina, & 10 others. Pellegrini style 4222 or 442 ideal ? No. Most other systems ? Yes.

Pellegrini. Any clue about any of them either way.? No. Any idea of how to get the best out of the players available ? No.

Learning to sit tighter & counter attack in europe instead of being lambs to the slaughter ? Possibly. We will see which team he picks.