Newcastle Thread - 2022/23

[KS55]

Worth noting that Newcastle isn’t a person. Whoever made that decision is very likely no longer at the club. The current ownership therefore are nothing to do with that letter.

This is technically wrong. Newcastle is a legal entity. If the current ownership has bought that entity, they have also bought its rights and obligations.
The people are not personally responsible for what went before, but they inherit the obligation to put anything that the club did wrong to rights. It is analogous to debts. Mansour was not responsible for City being in huge debt but, having bought the entity MCFC, Mansour is obliged to account for them.

 

[theolivegrove]

Fascinating stuff, Ashley was clearly everything they say he is and more, but fascinating as it might be, it's totally irrelevant to this discussion. Ashley didn't sign that letter coz he was an arsehole owner of Newcastle United, he signed it, just like Arsenal, Burnley, Chelsea, Leicester, Liverpool, Man Utd, Spurs and Wolves signed it, coz we were a threat to the existing order and they wanted us sent down for a "crime" we didn't commit. A crime they knew we hadn't committed, the same non-crime, perchance, that you happen to be committing now.

What crime you might ask?

Two really.

You've gone from dividend driven no-hoper, to forward looking inward investor, wiling to put off oodles of money now for the greater riches long term investment and growth can bring. That's a slap in the face to the American cash cow model. Fortunately for the status quo you're hampered by FFP in a way we weren't in our early days, but only to the extent that it might take you longer to get where you want to be.

And two, the nature of bloodline crony capitalism in the Middle East means that soon you'll be swimming in Saudi sponsorship from companies owned by second cousins, brothers, dads and their uncle Ahmed. There's nothing particularly more wrong with that than most crony capitalism, except it ain't your "normal" western crony capitalism and it looks rigged in your favour coz it is.

So where does that leave us? Your fan base and our fan base? Precisely nowhere.

We should have common cause but we don't, there isn't even unanimity within our own fan base as to how to deal with all this shit, so agreement between our two sets of supporters is unlikely. Besides fans are not a homogeneous group, getting them to act as one is like herding cats, unless you're a cult like Liverpool. Getting two fan bases to agree is a complete non starter.

Notwithstanding, the ownership of our respective clubs have nothing in common. Despite what our detractors might say bearded Arab fellas don't have common cause based on their ethnicity and facial hair.

I shouldn't be disappointed by the way your fans, at least on social media, have dealt with your present circumstance, but unreasonably I am. And as for poor old Eddie Howe? He clearly has no clue, but I guess you'll all find your own way.

As for an apology from Newcastle fans for your club being a signatory to the letter of shame, you're right, you have no responsibility for the actions of your ownership, you were not complicit, and until recently the media were on 100% on your side in that regard, always singing the praises of the bare chested, put upon Toon Army.

All the pundits, sports media, everyone, went out of their way to present a clear dividing line between everyone's second favourite club, those lovable Geordies filling St. Jame's every week to watch dross in all weathers, and the greedy grasping ownership of Mike Ashley, a man whose actions were solely responsible for bleeding your once "great" club dry, just as he continues to bleed his workers dry in his tat warehouses and shops.

Ain't it funny that the same mainstream media holds you complicit for the actions of your ownership now?

canny read that, ta.
just a short reply this time from me! :)
I think on the whole we've had a reasonably easy ride from the mainstream media up to now, as you alluded to a couple of days ago. there's been a fair bit of lazy journalism which tends to highlight the spend of the last 2 transfers windows with regard to the progression the team has made in the last 12 months rather than acknowledge the incredible job howe has done. I'm not dismissing '£200m as an insignificant amount of money I hasten to add, however the fact that chelsea dwarfed that in the summer alone gets by and large ignored.
there has been questions asked with regard to saudi ownership, and rightfully so, but those that seem to somehow link us with some kind of complicity are usually miguel delaney and oliver holt. both of whom can go fuck themselves till they reach climax by prolapse.

 

[KS55]

I'm sure you're right, but nufc have done nothing more than help continue to make inward investment from wealthy owners difficult so I'm sure it has and will continue to slow them down and bite them on the arse - karma. Having said that, their new owners do seem more willing to question investment (ffp) rules and tell folk to fuck off than ours ever did.

By abstaining on the new ffp rules on the grounds that they are unenforceable, City have opened a new chapter in this saga. My reading of those rules is that they will be used to try and curtail sponsorship from AD Companies; City will fight that and so we have avoided voting for rules whose legality we will be questionning in court. Neat.

 

[halfcenturyup]

By abstaining on the new ffp rules on the grounds that they are unenforceable, City have opened a new chapter in this saga. My reading of those rules is that they will be used to try and curtail sponsorship from AD Companies; City will fight that and so we have avoided voting for rules whose legality we will 0 questionning in court. Neat.

My reading is that they can't question sponsorship which is at "fair" value, no matter where it comes from, and they can't limit the number of sponsors from a particular country. Neither of these would hold up in court, and they know it. I think they have realised that City have bolted before they could effectively shut the stable door, but they want to prevent Newcastle getting their own Etihad deal. Which is going to be tough, given that no-one (important) really questions the nature of the Etihad deal any more.

Imo, where they will try to get us next is on the multi-club ownership model and, probably, transfers between the sister clubs.

 

[Mick_]

Mick - living in County Durham I know quite a few season ticket holders at Newcastle. Nearly everyone of them feels youse should cash in on Almeron now before he reverts to factory settings. I can also say that you can count the number of decent games St Maxim has had on the finger of 1 finger. Not many fans rate him outsideof the NE postcode. Having said that, I hope and prey you stay in the top 4

I'm not too sure if I would sell Almiron at this time, I guess it would depend on how much we were able to get for him and the same goes for every other player other than Pope, Botman, Bruno, Joelinton and Isak. I think we can build a team around the players that I have mentioned.

Saint-Maximin is actually developing his game from being the player we needed to do everythign on his own to being a player who can be a part of a team. He can't be expected to just change his game totally over night, it will take time.

Personally, I would play him (Saint-Maximin) and replace Longstaff with Joelinton as I think Longstaff is pointless. Don't get me wrong, he can have his moments duriing a game and he does cover ground. The only problem with him for me is that he rarely tackles as he closes down but doesn't get close enough to the opposition. He positions himself to block and that's great but he should offer more and he's quite poor when attacking because he doesn't seem to have a natural game in him, he has to think and whatever was happening is usually gone by the time he's thought about it. He also doesn't have a turn of pace and gives up when other players would keep going. It's so frustrating when we're attacking and he takes up a good position and then the moment has gone.

 

[The perfect fumble]

canny read that, ta.
just a short reply this time from me! :)
I think on the whole we've had a reasonably easy ride from the mainstream media up to now, as you alluded to a couple of days ago. there's been a fair bit of lazy journalism which tends to highlight the spend of the last 2 transfers windows with regard to the progression the team has made in the last 12 months rather than acknowledge the incredible job howe has done. I'm not dismissing '£200m as an insignificant amount of money I hasten to add, however the fact that chelsea dwarfed that in the summer alone gets by and large ignored.
there has been questions asked with regard to saudi ownership, and rightfully so, but those that seem to somehow link us with some kind of complicity are usually miguel delaney and oliver holt. both of whom can go fuck themselves till they reach climax by prolapse.

I've been to Saudi Arabia well over 50 times, I used to equip hospitals there, I'm not a great fan, but here's the rub. The universal human rights that Holt and Delaney write about are not universal, the vast majority of earth's population live in countries that don't recognise them at all, and when it comes to gay rights neither do any of the world's major religions.

The world may not be as you and I would like it, but before we lecture other countries a few home truths need to be understood.

These human rights are our rights, they're a western construct, it's the way we see the world, or more precisely how we want the world to be. Obviously our values are the gold standard! A world cast in our image would be a better place and consequently we name these rights Universal Rights and proudly proclaim that it's our duty to bring these freedoms to the downtrodden masses who clearly yearn for them!

Problem with that is for much beyond North America, Europe, the Antipodes and Japan that's simply not true, for most folk outside this western liberal bubble these "rights" are alien, imposed from without, the white man's burden dressed up as liberal values, nothing more than imperialism by other means, an insidious cultural imperialism.

Most countries outside the bubble are keener on the rights of sovereign nations, the idea that within their borders, nations have the sole and exclusive right to conduct their affairs as they see fit, free of outside interference. We don't like it if other countries meddle in our affairs or criticise our conduct, because it's nobody's business but ours. Surely the same must apply to Saudi and the UAE?

And didn't we send British Troops to defend Saudi Arabia thirty years ago?

Of course all this Holt and Delaney bullshit is a complete con, no one seriously believes it. Saudi and the UAE are massive investors in this country, they have a very broad portfolio. How is it that folk involved with all those other UK investments get a free pass? Why are they not dragged through the same moral maze as us?....Horse racing anyone?

Ah well football is different you see! It's a community asset! And blah, blah, blah down the wokery hole we go where nothing makes sense and I blame colonialism......and the Queen and.... of course....Mike Ashley ;-)

One country's benign soft power is another country's insidious sports washing, and it's the moral guardians of the west that decide which is which.

One can support the likes of Amnesty International and so on, yet still recognise double standards and low politics when one sees it. Selective guilt by association is a grubby business and I'm buggered if I'm going pretend that the faux outrage and rank hypocrisy around "sports washing" is anything other than political opportunism. It's cheap low hanging fruit plucked by the sports media looking for clicks. It's mischief making by our competitors. And it's the handiwork of social justice warriors, the arbiters of absolute truth, who in pursuit of the greater good, believe the ends justify the means, where the means is shaming Newcastle and City football fans for not having a social conscience greater than their petty tribal allegiances.

 

[Mick_]

No idea how Eddie will juggle ASM, Almiron, Isak, and Wilson, but I've almost total faith that he will. We've only had a 5 players at the World Cup and only Trippier played a significant part, so hopefully we'll have a fit squad ready to take advantage of any teams who've been more impacted by the tournament.

I fully expect that Howe will maintain the same intensity, the same standard of coaching and we should see similar performances. The results should follow the performances. Our final position will likely be more impacted by how other teams do when the PL returns.

I think we're still lacking in depth throughout the squad. So I'm hoping in January we can get a proper defensive midfielder, or some depth at fullback.

Dunno if we'll stay in the Champions League spots. Could depend on the January window to be honest. Not just ours, but who Man United and Liverpool end up signing.

Beginning of the season I'd have taken midtable as long as there was genuine improvement on the pitch. Top half looks like a reasonable expectation this season, but getting into Europe would be amazing. Getting a Champions League spot would be unbelievable.


With Gabriel Jesus out for a while, I'd expect you lot to usurp Arsenal. I think we'll end up 5/6th as teams with more experience at the top end of the table do their business.

Juggling Saint-Maximin, Isak, Wilson and Almiron should be quite easy as three of the four have a poor fitness record.

I would tell three of them that we're rotating them game by game and have them on a rota. It will put them all under less physical pressure whilst at the same timekeeping them match fit.

Wood for me is the odd one as he always seems to be fit, doesn't score enough goals but always gives 100% and is a valuable squad meember who is under rated by far too many people just because he doesn't score. It shouldn't be forgotten how valuable he was in helping to keep us up and I think every squad needs players who are not quite what you want but are happy to be involved without making a fuss about not playing all of the time.

 

[Pedestrian]

They’re riding a wave with an average squad. The premier league is not as good as the media try and make it.

 

[Mick_]

Eddie is doing a fantastic job it has to be said, giddy geordies need to seriously reign things in mind, you win fuck all being above the eventual winners in dec, even having played two games more ;)

I cringe when I see people claim that we're going to win the league, we're not. I don't mind fans singing it during a game as we're supposed to support our team and people should be allowed to dream at that mon=ment and giving players confidence is what supporters should be doing. 12 month ago most of us were resigned to going down so why not dream?

Another cringe is people claiming that we're the richest club in the world, we're not, we're a realtavely poor club because of the disgusting piece of shit who previously owned us to promote his stirry business interests, twat. What we do have are the richest owners in world football and it will take time for the club to build up revenue. I totally believe everybody within the club when they mention out limitations with FFP because our income is almost what it was when Ashley bought the club. That is changing but will take time. I hope that we sell naming rights to everything possible to get cash into the club. I'm willing to seel my soul to the devil to bring in cash which can be put towards building the club. I would also support moving away from St James' if that's what we need to do to get more fans into the ground. I love St James' but sentiment should not hold us back.

As for us not winning anything in December, that's very true. I think we could do well in the cups and would have loved to have got Man City at home in the next round of the League Cup because I now fancy us against anybody over 90 minutes at home. I don't think we could beat you over two legs home and away in the semi's and I doubt that we could do you at Wembley over 90 minutes.

 

[Mick_]

By abstaining on the new ffp rules on the grounds that they are unenforceable, City have opened a new chapter in this saga. My reading of those rules is that they will be used to try and curtail sponsorship from AD Companies; City will fight that and so we have avoided voting for rules whose legality we will be questionning in court. Neat.

Both of our clubs should do something about mounting a legal challenge against related party sponsorship. I would think one of our clubs should put sponsorship out to tender and hope a related party put in the best offer, accept it and see what happens. I can't see any court turning around and saying that either club should go for a lower bid.