While I sympathise with you, if you lived in America that little lot would have cost you a fortune, you pay for what you get. You could always pay for private if you are unhappy.BlueBearBoots said:malg said:That midwife, at the very least I would suggest is unprofessional, and at worst she is neglecting a patient. The nurses having a birthday celebration again is unprofessional, and a decent matron/sister would not allow it.BlueBearBoots said:I agree urmston's occupation is irrelevant he is posting about the economic sense of giving employees a wage increase when they are earning a good wage and there are plenty of people to replace any that leave.
Maybe I've been unlucky but a midwife left my daughter in the final stages of labour because her shift had ended, no problem with that because someone else replaced her but this can't be an isolated incident? Last year my dad was sat uncomfortably in a wheelchair for 2 hours waiting to be taken somewhere else for tests and about 5 nurses spent half an hour at the nurses station presenting a birthday cake to a nurse, blowing out candles and chatting, they weren't on a break. So please don't make them all out to be angels working for a pittance I could give lots more examples and yes of course examples of good nursing too, but good nursing is what we expect and what they are paid for. If I left a client mid phone call because it was 5.00pm I wouldn't keep my job for long
Malg I've spent many many hours in wythenshawe hospital over the last 7 years, my brother was in 3 weeks then died, my dad was in for operations for cancer twice and a heart attack then in for a week last year and died. My daughter was in and out all through her pregnancy with various things, some sort of horrid flu that they barrier nursed her for, kidney infections, etc etc then the birth. My grandson has been in and 3 weeks ago my mum broke her hip and was in all my experiences have been worrying to say the least the latest scandal being falsified records on my mums files the ward sister on being questioned looked puzzled said she would look into it then didn't. For myself i was told by my Zgp in June I needed to see a specialist I got an appointment for October which was cancelled due to short staff I'm not impressed with the NHS
malg said:I can't see that the NHS will be any safer in Labour hands. The problem is that throwing money at it is not the solution. There are far, far too many layers of management, and way too much time spent on targets. Granted that targets are needed, but the administrative burden that goes along with them is shocking. There are managers, with their own team of administrators who are responsible for just keeping track of the targets. If targets are missed, then this team will harangue the clinical staff, and therein lies the problem. Clinical staff will spend an inordinate amount of their time on administrative tasks.Blue Punter said:FantasyIreland said:I'm still thinking he's simply a whopper.
Please tell us your occupation Urmston?
Sounds like someone who used to be a guard at Alcatraz.
Back on topic, the tories are playing a dangerous game here. A lot of people rightly value the work of NHS staff. Could come back to bite them on the arse at the next election.
There is a happy medium to be had, but unfortunately the ship has sailed. Rather than reducing the admin burden in the NHS, every year it gets worse. Labour didn't lessen this burden when they were in, so I can't for the life of me see why the Tories are being blamed for fucking it up any more than Labour did. Oh, and as I've said before, Brown burdened the NHS with a fucking shocking amount of PFI deals, and whether Labour voters like it or not, the NHS are paying through the fucking nose for those deals.
Well let's hope that, if you're ever lying there on your floor suffering a heart attack or have been in a serious accident, that the paramedics take 10% longer than they should to get to you and do 10% less of the work they need to do to keep you alive.urmston said:I value the work of NHS staff - at about 5 to 10% less than we pay them at the moment.
Prestwich_Blue said:Well let's hope that, if you're ever lying there on your floor suffering a heart attack or have been in a serious accident, that the paramedics take 10% longer than they should to get to you and do 10% less of the work they need to do to keep you alive.urmston said:I value the work of NHS staff - at about 5 to 10% less than we pay them at the moment.
urmston said:Rascal said:urmston said:Oh , I see. A person must have lots of 'personal interaction' with the NHS to be able to have a valid opinion on NHS pay rises. How convenient. Most people with that interaction will be NHS staff, so using your reasoning they should simply decide on their own pay rises and tell the rest of us to pay up.
The NHS employs well over a million people and costs taxpayers billion of pounds per year.
When deciding on pay rises for its staff we need to look at supply and demand, market forces, what the rises will cost, if they can be afforded by the taxpayer etc etc.
We can't just rely on platitudes about our NHS being the envy of the world and all nurses being angels when it comes to deciding NHS pay rates, though it seems many NHS staff seem to think this is what we should do.
Why do you have to keep banging about taxpayers. Everybody pays tax every day why do you appear to think you have more right to bang on then anybody else.
The NHS is socialised medicine. A system that has brought unparralled growth in in our nations health since it was established. The nurses on my ward never bang on about pay, more conditions, but everyone of them is 100% dedicated to there chosen profession in a way which makes me very proud.
You mention market forces should decide, i would counter that as it is socialised medicine the Govt should decide and if need be raise taxes accordingly. After all who would not want a cradle to grave system of healtcare and an evergrowing healthy population
Our NHS and its socialised form is indeed responsible for the tremendous improvement in the UK's health since 1948. But other comparable countries have experienced equal or greater increases in health, and they don't have the NHS.
That's because the main drivers of a nation's improving health care are science, technology and the wealth of the nation's economy which enables its people to pay for better healthcare and to afford better food. The precise organisation of the country's health system is not an important factor. There is nothing particularly special about the NHS or its staff. Countries with private provision of health care financed by insurance models have just as good healthcare as the UK, and in many cases it is better.
Even in a socialised health system like the NHS market forces must dictate staff pay. People paid by the public must be paid roughly in accordance to their skills. For the state to pay a nurse more than he or she would be likely to earn in a comparable job of similar skill levels and requiring similar educational ability would be unfair on taxpayers.
Some NHS staff have a regrettable tendency to regard themselves as especially wonderful people who kindly provide the rest of us with health care, and are therefore deserving of special, generous treatment when it comes to pay and terms and conditions.
They should remember that the people who make the NHS possible are taxpayers. They fund the NHS. They are the most important people as far as the NHS goes.
NHS staff are merely people who sell their labour to the taxpayers in return for wages, and like all workers they demand and get market related wages dependent on their skills. This is why a doctor gets paid more than a nurse and a nurse gets paid more than a nursing assistant.
Some of them are Saxons.BlueBearBoots said:Tbf there are excellent workers in the NHS and bad ones too just the same as in the private sector just pisses me off that some ppl like to glorify NHS workers they aren't all angles !!!
Very true, there are many NHS workers who do a truly special job in difficult circumstances but there are also many who are the complete opposite of that and should be drummed out ofcthe NHSBlueBearBoots said:Tbf there are excellent workers in the NHS and bad ones too just the same as in the private sector just pisses me off that some ppl like to glorify NHS workers they aren't all angles !!!