NHS Strike

[urmston]

What are your dealings with the NHS? And what do you actually do as a job?

This would help so people could see what angle your views are coming from

Cheers

My dealings with the NHS are mainly as one of the people who pays for it via my taxes, something I'm pleased to do as long as the cash is used wisely, and not for staff pay rises which are not necessary or other wastes of hard earned taxpayers cash.

I have been to see a GP two or three times in the last 10 years or so, and I visit an NHS dentist once every six months, most recently last week when I paid £219 for two fillings and a crown.

My occupation is irrelevant.

So your personal interaction with the NHS is very limited indeed. Almost non existent in fact, but you claim to know they dont need pay rises etc etc

Your occupation is relevant as perhaps people with lots of personal interaction with the NHS can question why you hold the views you do.

Oh , I see. A person must have lots of 'personal interaction' with the NHS to be able to have a valid opinion on NHS pay rises. How convenient. Most people with that interaction will be NHS staff, so using your reasoning they should simply decide on their own pay rises and tell the rest of us to pay up.

The NHS employs well over a million people and costs taxpayers billion of pounds per year.

When deciding on pay rises for its staff we need to look at supply and demand, market forces, what the rises will cost, if they can be afforded by the taxpayer etc etc.

We can't just rely on platitudes about our NHS being the envy of the world and all nurses being angels when it comes to deciding NHS pay rates, though it seems many NHS staff seem to think this is what we should do.

 

[blueinsa]

Urmston would have IDS fucking grimacing!

It might even be him......

 

[Rascal]

I agree urmston's occupation is irrelevant he is posting about the economic sense of giving employees a wage increase when they are earning a good wage and there are plenty of people to replace any that leave.



Maybe I've been unlucky but a midwife left my daughter in the final stages of labour because her shift had ended, no problem with that because someone else replaced her but this can't be an isolated incident? Last year my dad was sat uncomfortably in a wheelchair for 2 hours waiting to be taken somewhere else for tests and about 5 nurses spent half an hour at the nurses station presenting a birthday cake to a nurse, blowing out candles and chatting, they weren't on a break.

Nurses are not employed to take people for tests. Porters are. They work on a cab rank system and perhaps a porter was not available for 2 hours. That happens in a busy organisation. Perhaps employ more porters. But then Urmston would complain at the waste of his tax money because occasionally porters may have nothing to do. Mealtimes are particular bad times to get a porter as they will busy delivering and collecting food trolleys from wards.



It is easy for somebody with a limited knowledge of the NHS to look at a situation and think badly of what they see. The 5 nurses may have a presented a cake and had a laugh, but how do you know for sure the chatting was not "handover" That from my experience normally takes around half an hour.

The NHS is easy to judge but not always easy to understand

 

[BlueBearBoots]

I agree urmston's occupation is irrelevant he is posting about the economic sense of giving employees a wage increase when they are earning a good wage and there are plenty of people to replace any that leave.



Maybe I've been unlucky but a midwife left my daughter in the final stages of labour because her shift had ended, no problem with that because someone else replaced her but this can't be an isolated incident? Last year my dad was sat uncomfortably in a wheelchair for 2 hours waiting to be taken somewhere else for tests and about 5 nurses spent half an hour at the nurses station presenting a birthday cake to a nurse, blowing out candles and chatting, they weren't on a break. So please don't make them all out to be angels working for a pittance I could give lots more examples and yes of course examples of good nursing too, but good nursing is what we expect and what they are paid for. If I left a client mid phone call because it was 5.00pm I wouldn't keep my job for long

That midwife, at the very least I would suggest is unprofessional, and at worst she is neglecting a patient. The nurses having a birthday celebration again is unprofessional, and a decent matron/sister would not allow it.

Malg I've spent many many hours in wythenshawe hospital over the last 7 years, my brother was in 3 weeks then died, my dad was in for operations for cancer twice and a heart attack then in for a week last year and died. My daughter was in and out all through her pregnancy with various things, some sort of horrid flu that they barrier nursed her for, kidney infections, etc etc then the birth. My grandson has been in and 3 weeks ago my mum broke her hip and was in all my experiences have been worrying to say the least the latest scandal being falsified records on my mums files the ward sister on being questioned looked puzzled said she would look into it then didn't. For myself i was told by my Zgp in June I needed to see a specialist I got an appointment for October which was cancelled due to short staff I'm not impressed with the NHS

 

[Rascal]

Oh , I see. A person must have lots of 'personal interaction' with the NHS to be able to have a valid opinion on NHS pay rises. How convenient. Most people with that interaction will be NHS staff, so using your reasoning they should simply decide on their own pay rises and tell the rest of us to pay up.

The NHS employs well over a million people and costs taxpayers billion of pounds per year.

When deciding on pay rises for its staff we need to look at supply and demand, market forces, what the rises will cost, if they can be afforded by the taxpayer etc etc.

We can't just rely on platitudes about our NHS being the envy of the world and all nurses being angels when it comes to deciding NHS pay rates, though it seems many NHS staff seem to think this is what we should do.

Why do you have to keep banging about taxpayers. Everybody pays tax every day why do you appear to think you have more right to bang on then anybody else.

The NHS is socialised medicine. A system that has brought unparralled growth in in our nations health since it was established. The nurses on my ward never bang on about pay, more conditions, but everyone of them is 100% dedicated to there chosen profession in a way which makes me very proud.


You mention market forces should decide, i would counter that as it is socialised medicine the Govt should decide and if need be raise taxes accordingly. After all who would not want a cradle to grave system of healtcare and an evergrowing healthy population

 

[Rascal]

Urmston would have IDS fucking wanking himself silly

It might even be him......

edited

 

[blueinsa]

Urmston would have IDS fucking wanking himself silly

It might even be him......

edited

Thanks.

 

[117 M34]

My dealings with the NHS are mainly as one of the people who pays for it via my taxes, something I'm pleased to do as long as the cash is used wisely, and not for staff pay rises which are not necessary or other wastes of hard earned taxpayers cash.

I have been to see a GP two or three times in the last 10 years or so, and I visit an NHS dentist once every six months, most recently last week when I paid £219 for two fillings and a crown.

My occupation is irrelevant.

So your personal interaction with the NHS is very limited indeed. Almost non existent in fact, but you claim to know they dont need pay rises etc etc

Your occupation is relevant as perhaps people with lots of personal interaction with the NHS can question why you hold the views you do.

Oh , I see. A person must have lots of 'personal interaction' with the NHS to be able to have a valid opinion on NHS pay rises. How convenient. Most people with that interaction will be NHS staff, so using your reasoning they should simply decide on their own pay rises and tell the rest of us to pay up.

The NHS employs well over a million people and costs taxpayers billion of pounds per year.

When deciding on pay rises for its staff we need to look at supply and demand, market forces, what the rises will cost, if they can be afforded by the taxpayer etc etc.

We can't just rely on platitudes about our NHS being the envy of the world and all nurses being angels when it comes to deciding NHS pay rates, though it seems many NHS staff seem to think this is what we should do.

If your boss froze your pay (if you aren't self-employed, which I suspect you are based on your comments), would you be more likely to not give a shit about doing a good job? Of course you would! Do you want someone who is unmotivated treating you when you are ill?

 

[malg]

I agree urmston's occupation is irrelevant he is posting about the economic sense of giving employees a wage increase when they are earning a good wage and there are plenty of people to replace any that leave.



Maybe I've been unlucky but a midwife left my daughter in the final stages of labour because her shift had ended, no problem with that because someone else replaced her but this can't be an isolated incident? Last year my dad was sat uncomfortably in a wheelchair for 2 hours waiting to be taken somewhere else for tests and about 5 nurses spent half an hour at the nurses station presenting a birthday cake to a nurse, blowing out candles and chatting, they weren't on a break. So please don't make them all out to be angels working for a pittance I could give lots more examples and yes of course examples of good nursing too, but good nursing is what we expect and what they are paid for. If I left a client mid phone call because it was 5.00pm I wouldn't keep my job for long

That midwife, at the very least I would suggest is unprofessional, and at worst she is neglecting a patient. The nurses having a birthday celebration again is unprofessional, and a decent matron/sister would not allow it.

Malg I've spent many many hours in wythenshawe hospital over the last 7 years, my brother was in 3 weeks then died, my dad was in for operations for cancer twice and a heart attack then in for a week last year and died. My daughter was in and out all through her pregnancy with various things, some sort of horrid flu that they barrier nursed her for, kidney infections, etc etc then the birth. My grandson has been in and 3 weeks ago my mum broke her hip and was in all my experiences have been worrying to say the least the latest scandal being falsified records on my mums files the ward sister on being questioned looked puzzled said she would look into it then didn't. For myself i was told by my Zgp in June I needed to see a specialist I got an appointment for October which was cancelled due to short staff I'm not impressed with the NHS

Christ, you've had some bad luck there. Hopefully the appointment with the specialist will go well for you.

I've been incredibly lucky with my health (one day off work in 25 years with the Army, and not one since I left). However my sister did succumb to cancer, after being misdiagnosed by a buffoon of a GP, but Christie's and Macmillan were brilliant. My wife has been in and out of hospital for some pretty serious stuff over the last 5 years. My wife's experience in Wythenshawe with a specialist have been nothing short of shocking, however the nursing staff were excellent.

So I suppose I've seen the good and bad. I still stand by my belief that the NHS is no worse off in Tory hands than it is in Labours.

 

[urmston]

Oh , I see. A person must have lots of 'personal interaction' with the NHS to be able to have a valid opinion on NHS pay rises. How convenient. Most people with that interaction will be NHS staff, so using your reasoning they should simply decide on their own pay rises and tell the rest of us to pay up.

The NHS employs well over a million people and costs taxpayers billion of pounds per year.

When deciding on pay rises for its staff we need to look at supply and demand, market forces, what the rises will cost, if they can be afforded by the taxpayer etc etc.

We can't just rely on platitudes about our NHS being the envy of the world and all nurses being angels when it comes to deciding NHS pay rates, though it seems many NHS staff seem to think this is what we should do.

Why do you have to keep banging about taxpayers. Everybody pays tax every day why do you appear to think you have more right to bang on then anybody else.

The NHS is socialised medicine. A system that has brought unparralled growth in in our nations health since it was established. The nurses on my ward never bang on about pay, more conditions, but everyone of them is 100% dedicated to there chosen profession in a way which makes me very proud.


You mention market forces should decide, i would counter that as it is socialised medicine the Govt should decide and if need be raise taxes accordingly. After all who would not want a cradle to grave system of healtcare and an evergrowing healthy population

Our NHS and its socialised form is indeed responsible for the tremendous improvement in the UK's health since 1948. But other comparable countries have experienced equal or greater increases in health, and they don't have the NHS.

That's because the main drivers of a nation's improving health care are science, technology and the wealth of the nation's economy which enables its people to pay for better healthcare and to afford better food. The precise organisation of the country's health system is not an important factor. There is nothing particularly special about the NHS or its staff. Countries with private provision of health care financed by insurance models have just as good healthcare as the UK, and in many cases it is better.

Even in a socialised health system like the NHS market forces must dictate staff pay. People paid by the public must be paid roughly in accordance to their skills. For the state to pay a nurse more than he or she would be likely to earn in a comparable job of similar skill levels and requiring similar educational ability would be unfair on taxpayers.

Some NHS staff have a regrettable tendency to regard themselves as especially wonderful people who kindly provide the rest of us with health care, and are therefore deserving of special, generous treatment when it comes to pay and terms and conditions.

They should remember that the people who make the NHS possible are taxpayers. They fund the NHS. They are the most important people as far as the NHS goes.

NHS staff are merely people who sell their labour to the taxpayers in return for wages, and like all workers they demand and get market related wages dependent on their skills. This is why a doctor gets paid more than a nurse and a nurse gets paid more than a nursing assistant.