NHS Strike

[pantalon violet again]

Unless your mate is a nurse, your wife or your husband or girlfriend or boyfriend or you know a nurse then frankly your opinion is fucking mute if you don't respect what they do for so little cash

These heroes are the bedrock of our health system and to see some fat bloated Tory c**t, cigar in mouth eating foie gras at the gentleman's club putting it on expenses whilst discussing a 1% rise for our nurses is frankly sickening .
I would gladly go all ISIS on these c**ts given the chance

So you think millions of people who pay taxes to pay nurses wages are not entitled to express opinions about those wages, but must simply listen to the opinions of nurses and their friends and their spouses?

An interesting and odd opinion.

By the way, the real heroes at the bedrock of our health system are the people who fund it and make it all possible - taxpayers, many of them on wages and terms and conditions much worse than those of striking NHS staff.

Moot.

Yeh I forgot Nurses don't pay tax ..silly me

 

[metalblue]

Probably failed exams to nursing or another NHS job.

I've never applied for an NHS job.

However, I have taught student nurses some rather basic maths - the kind of stuff I'd mastered soon after leaving primary school. It was slightly worrying to know that these people might one day be required to measure out a dose of a drug for a patient or to interpret numerical data, but I suppose things are made as simple as possible for them.

I've no problem with skilled NHS staff getting decent wages, or even superb ones where appropriate, but I do think some of them have an inflated opinion of their own abilities, skills and personal qualities, and perhaps this is why they think they need premium wages and more protection from economic downturns than the people who pay their wages.

As before you are advocating individual wage settlement rather than a national one. So what would you expect to happen to NHS wage inflation if that were to happen and why?

 

[urmston]

Probably failed exams to nursing or another NHS job.

I've never applied for an NHS job.

However, I have taught student nurses some rather basic maths - the kind of stuff I'd mastered soon after leaving primary school. It was slightly worrying to know that these people might one day be required to measure out a dose of a drug for a patient or to interpret numerical data, but I suppose things are made as simple as possible for them.

I've no problem with skilled NHS staff getting decent wages, or even superb ones where appropriate, but I do think some of them have an inflated opinion of their own abilities, skills and personal qualities, and perhaps this is why they think they need premium wages and more protection from economic downturns than the people who pay their wages.

As before you are advocating individual wage settlement rather than a national one. So what would you expect to happen to NHS wage inflation if that were to happen and why?

In an organisation with over a million staff it is possible that a few people are underpaid and would benefit from individual wage settlements for each skill. The best way to ascertain this is the market - supply and demand.

But generally NHS staff are quite well paid and get excellent terms and conditions. In an economy where decent jobs are scarce and applicants for most medical based education course are oversubscribed, it is obvious that there is not going to be a shortage of applicants for NHS jobs any time soon.

That's why I think it is sensible to freeze NHS wages for a few years as there is no economic need to pay the staff any more money.

Wages in the public sector should reflect those in the private sector which funds them.

At the moment I think we are seeing a public sector which expects to stay at the high water mark of wages and terms and conditions while everyone else - bar a few people like footballers and others in high demand occupations - takes a downward path in these respects because of all sorts of global and local economic realities.

This is not feasible or fair, and that's why it's not going to happen.

 

[Anonymous]

He's been at the Spectator again.

 

[metalblue]

I've never applied for an NHS job.

However, I have taught student nurses some rather basic maths - the kind of stuff I'd mastered soon after leaving primary school. It was slightly worrying to know that these people might one day be required to measure out a dose of a drug for a patient or to interpret numerical data, but I suppose things are made as simple as possible for them.

I've no problem with skilled NHS staff getting decent wages, or even superb ones where appropriate, but I do think some of them have an inflated opinion of their own abilities, skills and personal qualities, and perhaps this is why they think they need premium wages and more protection from economic downturns than the people who pay their wages.

As before you are advocating individual wage settlement rather than a national one. So what would you expect to happen to NHS wage inflation if that were to happen and why?

In an organisation with over a million staff it is possible that a few people are underpaid and would benefit from individual wage settlements for each skill. The best way to ascertain this is the market - supply and demand.

But generally NHS staff are quite well paid and get excellent terms and conditions. In an economy where decent jobs are scarce and applicants for most medical based education course are oversubscribed, it is obvious that there is not going to be a shortage of applicants for NHS jobs any time soon.

That's why I think it is sensible to freeze NHS wages for a few years as there is no economic need to pay the staff any more money.

Wages in the public sector should reflect those in the private sector which funds them.

At the moment I think we are seeing a public sector which expects to stay at the high water mark of wages and terms and conditions while everyone else - bar a few people like footballers and others in high demand occupations - takes a downward path in these respects because of all sorts of global and local economic realities.

This is not feasible or fair, and that's why it's not going to happen.

I agree with that point, it would allow the market to prove the value.

However it's not singularly about skills or ability of a specific nurse, geographical and other demographics will play a significant part as well. Hospitals currently disadvantaged by those factors would use wages to allow them to attract staff, surrounding hospitals would need to compete and so on and so forth. Although there are no examples of an NHS style organisation removing their so called "collective bargaining" evidence supports the notion that where collective bargaining is removed wage inflation follows (albeit relatively modest).


Footnote: The conditions for NHS workers is not universally excellent. Unless not having breaks and getting the odd punch or chunk of abuse thrown at you quantifies "excellent" and if so you probably want to look at doing a different job.

 

[mcmanus]

Unless your mate is a nurse, your wife or your husband or girlfriend or boyfriend or you know a nurse then frankly your opinion is fucking mute if you don't respect what they do for so little cash

These heroes are the bedrock of our health system and to see some fat bloated Tory c**t, cigar in mouth eating foie gras at the gentleman's club putting it on expenses whilst discussing a 1% rise for our nurses is frankly sickening .
I would gladly go all ISIS on these c**ts given the chance

So you think millions of people who pay taxes to pay nurses wages are not entitled to express opinions about those wages, but must simply listen to the opinions of nurses and their friends and their spouses?

An interesting and odd opinion.

By the way, the real heroes at the bedrock of our health system are the people who fund it and make it all possible - taxpayers, many of them on wages and terms and conditions much worse than those of striking NHS staff.

Moot.

I don't know if you are on the WUM or not. However, it gives me a chance to respond to idiotic thoughts of view.

Nurses get next to nowt for three years whilst training for a job that keeps our country running then the real work starts. Looking after sick people, wiping their arses, bathing them, dealing with nobhead relatives, being stressed out, seeing deaths, comforting the very ill, sometimes having to break the bad news to patients loved ones, working daft shifts for no extra, helping aggressive drunks in a&e........

After my mam left the NHS due to mainly ill health she got a job in a supermarket for slightly less money, similar holidays but miles more social hours, no puke or blood on her, a few deadlines and targets but about 1% of the stress. I could tell she missed nursing but fucking hell she said this is a walk in the park compared.

You reckon nurses should take pay cuts....... the best, smartest ones will just fuck off and take the easier life. Leaving the NHS fucked.

 

[stonerblue]

Telegraph and Guardian for me.

My views on NHS wages are purely economic. NHS staff sell their labour to the NHS. That is their only relationship with it. The price of their labour can go up and down depending on economic circumstances, like the price of anything else.

At the moment the employers of the NHS's staff, the public, are short of cash. Money is tight. Jobs are hard to get. Wage rises are rare. There's a glut of people wanting NHS employment.

In these conditions economics dictates that NHS wages should go down, not up.

Anyone who wants a nurse to get a big fat pay rise should write her a cheque and post it to her.

There's no need for this generosity to be forced on all taxpayers because there is simply no economic reason for any pay rise at all.

Unless you're an MP yeah?

Let's all hope you're never in need of emergency treatment yet get to hospital only to be greeted by an MP who hasn't got a fucking clue what to do to help because the nurse and doctor said fuck this, I'm off to parliament, you get great pay rises in there.

We are all in this together remember.....

We are not all in this together.

NHS staff are striking for pay rises that we'll have to pay for. If they'd ever taken the trouble to find out how average private sector worker has fared over the last 15 or so years they'd soon learn that they are doing very well in comparison.

But they couldn't care less about that.

They just want more of our money so they can preserve their own standard of living.

That's not all being in it together. That's greed, and a selfish desire to feather you own nest at the expense of millions of people who are having at least as hard if not harder than you are.

I;m guessing you were dropped on your head by the midwife..

 

[metalblue]

Unless your mate is a nurse, your wife or your husband or girlfriend or boyfriend or you know a nurse then frankly your opinion is fucking mute if you don't respect what they do for so little cash

These heroes are the bedrock of our health system and to see some fat bloated Tory c**t, cigar in mouth eating foie gras at the gentleman's club putting it on expenses whilst discussing a 1% rise for our nurses is frankly sickening .
I would gladly go all ISIS on these c**ts given the chance

So you think millions of people who pay taxes to pay nurses wages are not entitled to express opinions about those wages, but must simply listen to the opinions of nurses and their friends and their spouses?

An interesting and odd opinion.

By the way, the real heroes at the bedrock of our health system are the people who fund it and make it all possible - taxpayers, many of them on wages and terms and conditions much worse than those of striking NHS staff.

Moot.

I don't know if you are on the WUM or not. However, it gives me a chance to respond to idiotic thoughts of view.

Nurses get next to nowt for three years whilst training for a job that keeps our country running then the real work starts. Looking after sick people, wiping their arses, bathing them, dealing with nobhead relatives, being stressed out, seeing deaths, comforting the very ill, sometimes having to break the bad news to patients loved ones, working daft shifts for no extra, helping aggressive drunks in a&e........

After my mam left the NHS due to mainly ill health she got a job in a supermarket for slightly less money, similar holidays but miles more social hours, no puke or blood on her, a few deadlines and targets but about 1% of the stress. I could tell she missed nursing but fucking hell she said this is a walk in the park compared.

You reckon nurses should take pay cuts....... the best, smartest ones will just fuck off and take the easier life. Leaving the NHS fucked.

The NHS bursary is pretty good tbf. Other than that, spot on.

 

[mcmanus]

Tbf there are excellent workers in the NHS and bad ones too just the same as in the private sector just pisses me off that some ppl like to glorify NHS workers they aren't all angles !!!

You what?

The past few years I've had to visit hospital more times than I care to remember. I have been treated brilliantly 99% of the time, I have been really ill but their geniune professionalism and care helped me out no end. I do glorify them.

One of my proudest moments is when I walk down the street with my ex nurse mam who give up 15/20 years ago and people stop her and still say thank you for looking after them or a departed loved one.

..... they maybe not angles they are angels.

sensible post bbb I agree , when my misses worked for the NHS we knew a few cretins who you wouldnt trust to look after your dog but also loads of good ones who loved what they do.

looks like the highly indignant mcanus after another argument as per fucking usual

Hello nimrod.

Sorry I missed your 'whats the best colour bath towel' thread.

 

[stonerblue]

Quick question for urmston; How much does a bog standard fully qualified nurse get in the NHS and what's the equivalent rate in the private sector for the same job?