Nick Griffin Voting for UKIP, Tells Followers to do Same

[aguero93:20]

^^^Completely correct.
One of my mates(a black lad) voted ukip the other month, therefore are we to perceive him racist...

Did he say anything about mustached Mexicans, coin-grabbing Jews or Italian plumbers?

Yes, no, yes...

That'll have to be decided by a jury of his peers then:

 

[mancityvstoke]

Vote for whoever you want......they are all cunts

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Indeed and I'm not suggesting that any component part of LibLabCon is necessarily racist in spite of their allowing ex BNP members to join them. However, for the same reason I do feel that it rather undermines the suggestion that UKIP is the party to single out for racism though. You're almost certainly correct when you say that UKIP are the most 'perceived' racist party. However, that is very different to saying that they are the most actually racist party.

By the way, to suggest that Griffin "fully publicly endorsed" UKIP's views is well wide of the mark anyway. As he had a big bitchy falling out with the BNP he's merely trying to cause as much damage to them as he can and, following your point about the perception, he's calculated that this is the right thing to say to try to move voters away from the BNP. He's almost certainly wrong on that though - if you look at who the BNP have won seats from and who they've lost seats to, you'd have to say that overwhelming majority of their voters must come from, and go back to, Labour.

Ah! Perceptions - they can be a bugger!
Since most people don't actually read party manifestos or watch party political broadcasts , they are pretty much voting ( if indeed they can be bothered ) for a candidate based on their perception of the relevant party.
People perceive Ukip to be racist , not because they want to debate immigration - that is a debate they everyone agrees has to be had- and all the major parties are now getting involved -but nobody accuses the "liblabcon" of being racist for doing so.
No, Ukip are perceived as racist because it has members who say racist things, a view reinforced by the tacit support of one of the most odious repellant racist men in british politics , and I don't think anyone cares (or probably even knows) kabout his falling out with the BNP , and his current motivation , their perception is of a renowned racist endorsing ukip,
You would think the perception would be that a party with former BNP members in it would be more racist than one which actually bans them.
But that's perceptions for you!

My perception is that those who would use the fact that Griffin says he's voting UKIP as evidence that UKIP is racist are idiots.

Read it carefully.
I said that Ukip is perceived as racist because it has members who say racist things, not because of the people who vote for them.
Griffin is entitled to vote for whom he likes , but when the racist leader of a racist party publicly endorses the policies of another party, I , for one , wonder why.

 

[Balti]

Ah! Perceptions - they can be a bugger!
Since most people don't actually read party manifestos or watch party political broadcasts , they are pretty much voting ( if indeed they can be bothered ) for a candidate based on their perception of the relevant party.
People perceive Ukip to be racist , not because they want to debate immigration - that is a debate they everyone agrees has to be had- and all the major parties are now getting involved -but nobody accuses the "liblabcon" of being racist for doing so.
No, Ukip are perceived as racist because it has members who say racist things, a view reinforced by the tacit support of one of the most odious repellant racist men in british politics , and I don't think anyone cares (or probably even knows) kabout his falling out with the BNP , and his current motivation , their perception is of a renowned racist endorsing ukip,
You would think the perception would be that a party with former BNP members in it would be more racist than one which actually bans them.
But that's perceptions for you!

My perception is that those who would use the fact that Griffin says he's voting UKIP as evidence that UKIP is racist are idiots.

Read it carefully.
I said that Ukip is perceived as racist because it has members who say racist things, not because of the people who vote for them.
Griffin is entitled to vote for whom he likes , but when the racist leader of a racist party publicly endorses the policies of another party, I , for one , wonder why.

maybe it's because he got expelled from his own party and he's sulking a little bit lol

.....or could it be because the BNP want the UK to withdraw from the EU and that is UKIP policy too and clearly UKIP have a far greater chance of making that happen than the meaningless and obnoxious BNP....

I can't see that wanting to withdraw from the EU make you a racist.....and UKIP certainly does not share some of the more extreme policies of the BNP...

 

[Bodicoteblue]

My perception is that those who would use the fact that Griffin says he's voting UKIP as evidence that UKIP is racist are idiots.

Read it carefully.
I said that Ukip is perceived as racist because it has members who say racist things, not because of the people who vote for them.
Griffin is entitled to vote for whom he likes , but when the racist leader of a racist party publicly endorses the policies of another party, I , for one , wonder why.

maybe it's because he got expelled from his own party and he's sulking a little bit lol

.....or could it be because the BNP want the UK to withdraw from the EU and that is UKIP policy too and clearly UKIP have a far greater chance of making that happen than the meaningless and obnoxious BNP....

I can't see that wanting to withdraw from the EU make you a racist.....and UKIP certainly does not share some of the more extreme policies of the BNP...

Again , that is not what I said.
It is a perfectly legitimate political aim to want to withdraw from the EU - of course it's not racist.
What I said was that Ukip has members in it who say racist things , so there are racist individuals in the party, it is not necessarily a racist party . It is a party with racists in it .
It has made a virtue of not allowing former BNP members to join , that's their prerogative, but they already have racists in their own ranks.

 

[hgblue]

Read it carefully.
I said that Ukip is perceived as racist because it has members who say racist things, not because of the people who vote for them.
Griffin is entitled to vote for whom he likes , but when the racist leader of a racist party publicly endorses the policies of another party, I , for one , wonder why.

maybe it's because he got expelled from his own party and he's sulking a little bit lol

.....or could it be because the BNP want the UK to withdraw from the EU and that is UKIP policy too and clearly UKIP have a far greater chance of making that happen than the meaningless and obnoxious BNP....

I can't see that wanting to withdraw from the EU make you a racist.....and UKIP certainly does not share some of the more extreme policies of the BNP...

Again , that is not what I said.
It is a perfectly legitimate political aim to want to withdraw from the EU - of course it's not racist.
What I said was that Ukip has members in it who say racist things , so there are racist individuals in the party, it is not necessarily a racist party . It is a party with racists in it .
It has made a virtue of not allowing former BNP members to join , that's their prerogative, but they already have racists in their own ranks.

I would hazard a guess that there are racist individuals in every political party. Does that make those parties racist also?

 

[Bodicoteblue]

maybe it's because he got expelled from his own party and he's sulking a little bit lol

.....or could it be because the BNP want the UK to withdraw from the EU and that is UKIP policy too and clearly UKIP have a far greater chance of making that happen than the meaningless and obnoxious BNP....

I can't see that wanting to withdraw from the EU make you a racist.....and UKIP certainly does not share some of the more extreme policies of the BNP...

Again , that is not what I said.
It is a perfectly legitimate political aim to want to withdraw from the EU - of course it's not racist.
What I said was that Ukip has members in it who say racist things , so there are racist individuals in the party, it is not necessarily a racist party . It is a party with racists in it .
It has made a virtue of not allowing former BNP members to join , that's their prerogative, but they already have racists in their own ranks.

I would hazard a guess that there are racist individuals in every political party. Does that make those parties racist also?

Perhaps there are those individuals in other parties , we don't actually know.
Why don't we know ? Because they haven't naively opened their mouths and espoused racist views leaving voters with the impression of a racist party, or a party with racists in it who feel comfortable expressing their views.
If politically motivated racism was part of my philosophy , I don't think that I would feel that the Labour , conservative or Libdem parties would be my natural home , but if I made it so , then the moment I expressed those views , I would expect to be expelled from any of those organisations.
I assume the reason that UKIP prohibit former BNP members from joining them is because they fear being associated with racists and their views , but thanks to their existing members , the genie is already out of the bottle on that one and it can't be put back in.
Of course , Ukip can't stop odious people like griffin from expressing his support for them , but as I said previously , people don't read manifestos or watch political broadcasts ,so they are left with the sight of an arch-racist endorsing a certain party - nobody really knows what his policies are on health and education etc. are, or if agreement with Ukip on those particular aspects are his motivation - they only see him as a racist siding with a certain political grouping.
I also said before that if you took a straw poll on any high street in Britain and asked specifically which of the major parties ( I'll include Ukip under that heading for obvious reasons ) was perceived as the most racist , then Ukip would be runaway winners , they can argue till they're blue in the face that they aren't , but public opinion is very difficult to shift.
In terms of public perception , and that is the essence of this debate, it is a PR disaster, and these days sadly, PR is as important as policies.

 

[SteWadda]

Again , that is not what I said.
It is a perfectly legitimate political aim to want to withdraw from the EU - of course it's not racist.
What I said was that Ukip has members in it who say racist things , so there are racist individuals in the party, it is not necessarily a racist party . It is a party with racists in it .
It has made a virtue of not allowing former BNP members to join , that's their prerogative, but they already have racists in their own ranks.

I would hazard a guess that there are racist individuals in every political party. Does that make those parties racist also?

Perhaps there are those individuals in other parties , we don't actually know.
Why don't we know ? Because they haven't naively opened their mouths and espoused racist views leaving voters with the impression of a racist party, or a party with racists in it who feel comfortable expressing their views.
If politically motivated racism was part of my philosophy , I don't think that I would feel that the Labour , conservative or Libdem parties would be my natural home , but if I made it so , then the moment I expressed those views , I would expect to be expelled from any of those organisations.
I assume the reason that UKIP prohibit former BNP members from joining them is because they fear being associated with racists and their views , but thanks to their existing members , the genie is already out of the bottle on that one and it can't be put back in.
Of course , Ukip can't stop odious people like griffin from expressing his support for them , but as I said previously , people don't read manifestos or watch political broadcasts ,so they are left with the sight of an arch-racist endorsing a certain party - nobody really knows what his policies are on health and education etc. are, or if agreement with Ukip on those particular aspects are his motivation - they only see him as a racist siding with a certain political grouping.
I also said before that if you took a straw poll on any high street in Britain and asked specifically which of the major parties ( I'll include Ukip under that heading for obvious reasons ) was perceived as the most racist , then Ukip would be runaway winners , they can argue till they're blue in the face that they aren't , but public opinion is very difficult to shift.
In terms of public perception , and that is the essence of this debate, it is a PR disaster, and these days sadly, PR is as important as policies.

Didn't the Torys send a truck round with a poster on telling imigrants to go home, I perceive that as racist.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

I would hazard a guess that there are racist individuals in every political party. Does that make those parties racist also?

Perhaps there are those individuals in other parties , we don't actually know.
Why don't we know ? Because they haven't naively opened their mouths and espoused racist views leaving voters with the impression of a racist party, or a party with racists in it who feel comfortable expressing their views.
If politically motivated racism was part of my philosophy , I don't think that I would feel that the Labour , conservative or Libdem parties would be my natural home , but if I made it so , then the moment I expressed those views , I would expect to be expelled from any of those organisations.
I assume the reason that UKIP prohibit former BNP members from joining them is because they fear being associated with racists and their views , but thanks to their existing members , the genie is already out of the bottle on that one and it can't be put back in.
Of course , Ukip can't stop odious people like griffin from expressing his support for them , but as I said previously , people don't read manifestos or watch political broadcasts ,so they are left with the sight of an arch-racist endorsing a certain party - nobody really knows what his policies are on health and education etc. are, or if agreement with Ukip on those particular aspects are his motivation - they only see him as a racist siding with a certain political grouping.
I also said before that if you took a straw poll on any high street in Britain and asked specifically which of the major parties ( I'll include Ukip under that heading for obvious reasons ) was perceived as the most racist , then Ukip would be runaway winners , they can argue till they're blue in the face that they aren't , but public opinion is very difficult to shift.
In terms of public perception , and that is the essence of this debate, it is a PR disaster, and these days sadly, PR is as important as policies.

Didn't the Torys send a truck round with a poster on telling imigrants to go home, I perceive that as racist.

Well then , they can be perceived as racists.

 

[Mustard Dave]

I would hazard a guess that there are racist individuals in every political party. Does that make those parties racist also?

Perhaps there are those individuals in other parties , we don't actually know.
Why don't we know ? Because they haven't naively opened their mouths and espoused racist views leaving voters with the impression of a racist party, or a party with racists in it who feel comfortable expressing their views.
If politically motivated racism was part of my philosophy , I don't think that I would feel that the Labour , conservative or Libdem parties would be my natural home , but if I made it so , then the moment I expressed those views , I would expect to be expelled from any of those organisations.
I assume the reason that UKIP prohibit former BNP members from joining them is because they fear being associated with racists and their views , but thanks to their existing members , the genie is already out of the bottle on that one and it can't be put back in.
Of course , Ukip can't stop odious people like griffin from expressing his support for them , but as I said previously , people don't read manifestos or watch political broadcasts ,so they are left with the sight of an arch-racist endorsing a certain party - nobody really knows what his policies are on health and education etc. are, or if agreement with Ukip on those particular aspects are his motivation - they only see him as a racist siding with a certain political grouping.
I also said before that if you took a straw poll on any high street in Britain and asked specifically which of the major parties ( I'll include Ukip under that heading for obvious reasons ) was perceived as the most racist , then Ukip would be runaway winners , they can argue till they're blue in the face that they aren't , but public opinion is very difficult to shift.
In terms of public perception , and that is the essence of this debate, it is a PR disaster, and these days sadly, PR is as important as policies.

Didn't the Torys send a truck round with a poster on telling imigrants to go home, I perceive that as racist.

They sent a van round telling illegal immigrants to go home or face arrest. I fail to understand how that is racist.