Nigel Farage

[i kne albert davy]

If you asked a random 100 people who voted Brexit if the country was in a better or worse state than in 2016 I’ll hazard over 95 would say the latter.

You could also ask was the better or worse after joining the mess in 1973

 

[Ban-jani]

There’s no doubt it far more nuanced than just Brexit, but it’s equally correct (and empirically provable) that Brexit has played a huge part in making things ‘worse’, immigration being a case in point.

My point was a fairly binary one though. They pretty much all will have voted Brexit in the expectation that things would have improved by now, some ten years later, but in almost every instance, subjectively speaking, they haven’t.

I don’t disagree, the whole cake and eat thing was ridiculous. An honest argument for Brexit should have been that yes, the economy will suffer, and living standards might drop, but it’ll be worth it for our independence.

(Not that I think that necessarily, just that’s the argument leave should have made if they told the truth)

The immigration thing is political will, especially for legal migration, we can choose to allow any number of legal migrants we want, Johnson’s government decided they would allow the biggest numbers in history and it’s why the Tories are now abandoned on the Right, and deservedly.

 

[Earlyriser]

There’s no doubt it far more nuanced than just Brexit, but it’s equally correct (and empirically provable) that Brexit has played a huge part in making things ‘worse’, immigration being a case in point.

My point was a fairly binary one though. They pretty much all will have voted Brexit in the expectation that things would have improved by now, some ten years later, but in almost every instance, subjectively speaking, they haven’t.

I need to point out I don’t agree with point 6 just to make that clear, so I am not arguing for it. If I was Prime Minister, I would go the other way and minimise private health to and put more resources into the NHS.

Reform’s policy though, is based on the insurance system funding the additional resources, rather than taking from the NHS. If more high end professionals have more specific private medical insurance, that is funding the private sector, then in theory they believe that is where the resource will come from.

And we have the model of Private Health Care and premiums in the Pet Care Industry and we all know what has happened there

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

You could also ask was the better or worse after joining the mess in 1973

You could, although it’s a bit of a leading question…

 

[Ban-jani]

And we have the model of Private Health Care and premiums in the Pet Care Industry and we all know what has happened there

That’s true but there’s no alternative there. If we look to the US and see how horrific their healthcare model is, it should be enough to put us off the private only route.

Reform want a mix, but I have serious concerns and would prefer the NHS to be fit for everyone to use instead.

 

[Ban-jani]

It’s more the tone, the pressure, the aggression.

Like the Angela Rayner 40k thing where it felt like a rampaging witch hunt where there was a desperation for her to quit.

Yeah, it’s being reported, but it’s not really in the same way.

Ok I get you, and I don’t disagree.

“Calls for Rayner to quit” were everywhere I remember.

 

[Heartofoakes64]

That’s true but there’s no alternative there. If we look to the US and see how horrific their healthcare model is, it should be enough to put us off the private only route.

Reform want a mix, but I have serious concerns and would prefer the NHS to be fit for everyone to use instead.

I agree, however for years I had cataract, it got to the stage it would affect my ability to drive, I had Been referred by my GP for cataract surgery 4 years previous. Cut a long story short I had no choice but to go private. Within 3 weeks job was done my eyesight is excellent but it cost £3000, it rankled I had to pay to get the surgery after paying in the system all my life. We therefore already have a mix of NHS & Private. I live in Derry & visit friends in the Republic of Ireland. A close friend told me he had the same job done at the same hospital as me in Ballycastle, he paid the same 3k however he claimed the full amount back from the Irish government, Therefore the Irish can get these procedures carried out in the UK & the Irish government pick up the tab.I was happy for him but furious we don’t have access to the same process.

 

[Earlyriser]

That’s true but there’s no alternative there. If we look to the US and see how horrific their healthcare model is, it should be enough to put us off the private only route.

Reform want a mix, but I have serious concerns and would prefer the NHS to be fit for everyone to use instead.

There was when there was a robust private sector but the equity companies came in and have hoovered up the sector.
Now we have conglomerates

 

[hilts]

What i just dont understand is Farage is at the top of the polling but this is the man who crippled the country through Brexit. The country is currently loosing approximately 150- 200 billion pounds per year since we left the EU.

If he becomes the next prime minister the only people who will benefit will be himself & the very rich.

Once upon a time in a remainer world far far away.......

 

[Ban-jani]

I agree, however for years I had cataract, it got to the stage it would affect my ability to drive, I had Been referred by my GP for cataract surgery 4 years previous. Cut a long story short I had no choice but to go private. Within 3 weeks job was done my eyesight is excellent but it cost £3000, it rankled I had to pay to get the surgery after paying in the system all my life. We therefore already have a mix of NHS & Private. I live in Derry & visit friends in the Republic of Ireland. A close friend told me he had the same job done at the same hospital as me in Ballycastle, he paid the same 3k however he claimed the full amount back from the Irish government, Therefore the Irish can get these procedures carried out in the UK & the Irish government pick up the tab.I was happy for him but furious we don’t have access to the same process.

Ok, well if I was Prime Minister then you wouldn’t have paid for that.

 

[hilts]

There’s no doubt it far more nuanced than just Brexit, but it’s equally correct (and empirically provable) that Brexit has played a huge part in making things ‘worse’, immigration being a case in point.

My point was a fairly binary one though. They pretty much all will have voted Brexit in the expectation that things would have improved by now, some ten years later, but in almost every instance, subjectively speaking, they haven’t.

Huge part is not provable. I could expect life would get better with a pay rise but then the company could cut my hours thru lack of work or the cost of living through pandemics/wars which would increase inflation making my life worse despite the pay rise.
By your argument because Germany stayed in the EU and have had next to no growth the EU must have played a huge part in their stagnation.
Brexit is just a word, the referendum was just a vote, it had no say in the implementation of what followed, it didnt pick the politicians that carried it out and it didnt cause European or global events.
People can claim leaving the EU was economically damaging and tbh the economics was never my priority in the vote but the brexit vote didn't obviously do anything and it certainly didnt make immigration 'worse'. Immigration is govt policy not a legal requirement of a vote. If immigration is 'good' how can increasing it because of brexit be bad?
If brexit was successful because people wanted less immigration but it then increased then thats not down to the voters its down to the politicians allowing it through the rules of entry they set.
As for the 95% figure i accept you hazard a guess but thats what it was. I couldn't guess myself because in all honesty hardly anyone I know even talks about the subject, which is odd considering how utterly damaging it has been to them.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Nigel brought Brexit, it didn’t work.

Nigel makes PM, ….

 

[I'm With Stupid]

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Huge part is not provable. I could expect life would get better with a pay rise but then the company could cut my hours thru lack of work or the cost of living through pandemics/wars which would increase inflation making my life worse despite the pay rise.
By your argument because Germany stayed in the EU and have had next to no growth the EU must have played a huge part in their stagnation.
Brexit is just a word, the referendum was just a vote, it had no say in the implementation of what followed, it didnt pick the politicians that carried it out and it didnt cause European or global events.
People can claim leaving the EU was economically damaging and tbh the economics was never my priority in the vote but the brexit vote didn't obviously do anything and it certainly didnt make immigration 'worse'. Immigration is govt policy not a legal requirement of a vote. If immigration is 'good' how can increasing it because of brexit be bad?
If brexit was successful because people wanted less immigration but it then increased then thats not down to the voters its down to the politicians allowing it through the rules of entry they set.
As for the 95% figure i accept you hazard a guess but thats what it was. I couldn't guess myself because in all honesty hardly anyone I know even talks about the subject, which is odd considering how utterly damaging it has been to them.

Honestly, the main impact of Brexit was that it gutted the Tory government of anyone competent and left the running of the country to people with no principles other than their own power. The result was a bunch of very incompetent people in positions of power to the point that the most publicly anti-immigrant party of my lifetime could preside over the highest ever immigration numbers.

 

[BlueRockape]

I agree, however for years I had cataract, it got to the stage it would affect my ability to drive, I had Been referred by my GP for cataract surgery 4 years previous. Cut a long story short I had no choice but to go private. Within 3 weeks job was done my eyesight is excellent but it cost £3000, it rankled I had to pay to get the surgery after paying in the system all my life. We therefore already have a mix of NHS & Private. I live in Derry & visit friends in the Republic of Ireland. A close friend told me he had the same job done at the same hospital as me in Ballycastle, he paid the same 3k however he claimed the full amount back from the Irish government, Therefore the Irish can get these procedures carried out in the UK & the Irish government pick up the tab.I was happy for him but furious we don’t have access to the same process.

I live in Spain and waiting for a new knee have to wait another two months.
But the Irish are being flown in in shed loads for knee opps paid for by the Irish government it seems like the place to be if you want anything done

 

[hilts]

Honestly, the main impact of Brexit was that it gutted the Tory government of anyone competent and left the running of the country to people with no principles other than their own power. The result was a bunch of very incompetent people in positions of power to the point that the most publicly anti-immigrant party of my lifetime could preside over the highest ever immigration numbers.

Cameron took a gamble because he felt UKIP was gaining traction and were damaging to the Tories. What happened before, during the campaigns and now afterwards is complicated and cannot be discussed rationally on here. Its why there is a thread where mainly only remainers venture.
I generally just smile at the coz of Brexit posts that crop up everywhere but once in a bluemoon I will reply if the poster is of the sane variety and will take on the points I raised even if they don't agree.
The thick racist own your vote...... posts are terminally dull after a decade. Its a strange phenomenon the reaction to Brexit on here it seems so out of whack with the level of angst it causes.

 

[threespires]

Nigel brought Brexit, it didn’t work.

Nigel makes PM, ….

Whether it worked depends on your perspective. I imagine if you were sat in the Kremlin you might think it had worked quite well.

 

[M18CTID]

Cameron took a gamble because he felt UKIP was gaining traction and were damaging to the Tories. What happened before, during the campaigns and now afterwards is complicated and cannot be discussed rationally on here. Its why there is a thread where mainly only remainers venture.
I generally just smile at the coz of Brexit posts that crop up everywhere but once in a bluemoon I will reply if the poster is of the sane variety and will take on the points I raised even if they don't agree.
The thick racist own your vote...... posts are terminally dull after a decade. Its a strange phenomenon the reaction to Brexit on here it seems so out of whack with the level of angst it causes.

A measure of what people think of Brexit would be to have another referendum and I'm confident that Remain would win by a large margin which would suggest that many who voted Leave now realise it was a mistake. I'm one of those by the way. I think that just because hardly anyone talks about it that much doesn't mean that loads of us don't think it's turned out to be a shitshow.

You're right that it wasn't the public who decided what type of Brexit we got and it was down to the politicians. However, hindsight - which is a wonderful thing of course - shows that voting Leave and expecting our politicians to get us a good deal on the back of that was naive. And as shit as Johnson's "oven ready" deal is, I bet if Farage had been involved in the negotiations he'd have gotten us an even worse deal. And going back to the hindsight thing, leaving the EU was always going to have far-reaching consequences, both intended and unintended.

 

[hilts]

A measure of what people think of Brexit would be to have another referendum and I'm confident that Remain would win by a large margin which would suggest that many who voted Leave now realise it was a mistake. I'm one of those by the way. I think that just because hardly anyone talks about it that much doesn't mean that loads of us don't think it's turned out to be a shitshow.

You're right that it wasn't the public who decided what type of Brexit we got and it was down to the politicians. However, hindsight - which is a wonderful thing of course - shows that voting Leave and expecting our politicians to get us a good deal on the back of that was naive. And as shit as Johnson's "oven ready" deal is, I bet if Farage had been involved in the negotiations he'd have gotten us an even worse deal. And going back to the hindsight thing, leaving the EU was always going to have far-reaching consequences, both intended and unintended.

Having another referendum would be a really bad idea with reform leading the polls plus all the shite campaigning, can you risk a push back?. What happened to waiting decades for a say? What happened to its too complicated for the plebs to decide. Its been a decade but we still haven't positioned ourselves yet with the relationship we will have with the EU. Its ridiculous after this amount of time but we haven't seen how it will look being out yet, thats politicians for you.
You have a remain govt, one that wants closer ties, you say most would want back in. It seems obvious what should happen. If Labour don't give remainers what they want they can vote for someone else. If you think about it and its one of the reasons I tend not to bother with the subject is the hypocrisy that is staggering from what posters said on here.
Suddenly you think you will win so referendums are popular and you want one. How long did the rest of us wait for ours?
I would see how Labour do then if its not good enough vote for a party that wants PR and full integration with the EU.
Some good can come out of this but ultimately its how people use their vote.
Good luck with that:-)

 

[M18CTID]

Having another referendum would be a really bad idea with reform leading the polls plus all the shite campaigning, can you risk a push back?. What happened to waiting decades for a say? What happened to its too complicated for the plebs to decide. Its been a decade but we still haven't positioned ourselves yet with the relationship we will have with the EU. Its ridiculous after this amount of time but we haven't seen how it will look being out yet, thats politicians for you.
You have a remain govt, one that wants closer ties, you say most would want back in. It seems obvious what should happen. If Labour don't give remainers what they want they can vote for someone else. If you think about it and its one of the reasons I tend not to bother with the subject is the hypocrisy that is staggering from what posters said on here.
Suddenly you think you will win so referendums are popular and you want one. How long did the rest of us wait for ours?
I would see how Labour do then if its not good enough vote for a party that wants PR and full integration with the EU.
Some good can come out of this but ultimately its how people use their vote.
Good luck with that:-)

I'm not saying we should have another referendum mate - just that if there was one tomorrow, Remain would comfortably win!